i saw a weird/creepy thing on the F last night--did you?
Comments
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redmenace wrote: [quote=brooklynpotter]you don't sneak someone home on the subway. and a TALL blond nordic woman is hard to hide. yes, they do all the things you mentioned, just not out in the open--trust me, i'm a secular non-practicing atheist with no glossy visions of what the super-frum are supposed to be like. i've done enough reading and research and outreach to know there are all kinds of things in this community. but the ONE thing that is one of the biggest things is being modest. APPEARING modest. (modest meaning dressing by covering your body, not touching, etc. a different definition of what we call modest.)
Let me rephrase: what exactly is it you are implying, or afraid that is happening? This is NY after all. All kinds of people tend to speak to all kinds of people.
what should we do with the info? don't know. was hoping there were other people who saw it or something.
I've lived here my whole life, and nothing really surprises me anymore. If there was no violence involved, what is the issue?
i'm not implying anything. i'm saying that i can't find a scenario to explain this situation. that while all kinds of people do all kinds of things here in nyc, this is not something you see because much of it goes against any number of the laws that the orthodox follow. especially in public. if they're going to stray or sin or whatever, and i know they are not immune to these things, it's not something that's done out in the open. ever. which is why this scenario raised red flags for me because nothing about it was easily explained. -
ninemonthsout wrote: [quote=redmenace]so what are we to do with this information?
Throw out imaginary scenarios to explain the odd couple. I'll go first:
He wasn't Jewish or elderly. They are a young married couple (originally from Ohio) who were in disguise to look unsuspecting so that they can steal luggage from the airport. They don't sell their loot, they simply do it for the thrill. They get off on the idea that someone is still waiting at baggage claim C for their big red suitcase. It's become a weekly ritual for them- they use the clothes they steal as their disguise for the next week. He leaned in to say "Stay cool, baby. Someone's staring at us..."
hahaha, love it. -
brooklynpotter wrote:
So what is the "creepy" part? they were people in public. Maybe I'm just missing something here. I don't see why this is weird or creeped you out.
i'm not implying anything. i'm saying that i can't find a scenario to explain this situation. that while all kinds of people do all kinds of things here in nyc, this is not something you see because much of it goes against any number of the laws that the orthodox follow. especially in public. if they're going to stray or sin or whatever, and i know they are not immune to these things, it's not something that's done out in the open. ever. which is why this scenario raised red flags for me because nothing about it was easily explained.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand why this is an issue; what was it about the situation that made you uneasy enough to feel others needed to be alerted? -
redmenace wrote: [quote=Jamzer][quote=redmenace]so what are we to do with this information?
Hunt down the Hassidic man with the nordic, non-jewish, hooker girlfriend with tattos and body piercings who was about to convert to Judiasm whom he was abusing or selling into slavery and report him to the authorities.
RIGHT NOW!
last time someone tried to do that, it was in Carroll Park, and involved a female child and, what turned out to be a male family member. The man's picture was posted on many local boards and labeled as a sex offender. It was ugly and embarrassing. And wrong.
Woahaha wha? What are we all talking about? I am so lost. There are blonde hookers on the F train...and cell phone service?
Intuition is a powerful tool that can save lives. And jumping to assumptions is deadly.
But let's go back to this Carroll Park thing. Are you saying that someone called the cops on a Hassidic man who was with his own child because the child did not look Jewish? -
perhaps i am not explaining the situation correctly, or perhaps you are being argumentative.
in orthodox judaism, the sexes do not mix (other than immediate family). men do not touch women who are not their wives, mothers, sisters, daughters. much about the appearance of immodesty is followed strictly. what you and i i consider immodest is not what they would consider immodest because the meaning of the word is different for them. (look up the word tzius, i'm running late this morning and don't have time to properly explain).
ergo, a man would not be traveling with a young woman in this manner. if she were his long lost daugher, he would have a female relative with him.
orthodox mourn for those who leave their faith, they consider them "dead". this woman was not orthodox, she was wearing pants and not acting modestly.
these two people should not have been traveling together and sitting closely and speaking closely.
i don't know why they were together. i always worry about girls and women who are in situations that appear bizarre, this did.
unless you understand their rules and laws, perhaps you cannot understand why this appeared so fishy. but so manythings about it were so absolutely against their rules that it stood out like a red flag. -
brooklynpotter, let's just assume that you were NOT overly impressed by "Eastern Promises" and do NOT hate anyone who looks Chassid. Let's assume that you DID witness human sex slave smuggling in action. Here is what you can do:
-Call one of Brooklyn's Precincts (maybe where you saw the couple get on or off the train or maybe the Precinct of where you live) and report the incident. As much as people criticize cops, New York City is packed with detectives and hidden surveillance cameras. If detectives are working on busting a sex slave ring, your information might help them obtain video footage they need to indict someone on their suspects lists. If the cops have photos of suspects, offer to go in and look at them.
It's best to call the Precinct closest to the incident.
66th Precinct 718-851-5611
* Midwood
* Kensington
* Boro Park
68th Precinct 718-439-4211
* Bay Ridge
* Dyker Heights
* Fort Hamilton
72nd Precinct 718-965-6311
* Sunset Park
* Windsor Terrace
78th Precinct 718-636-6411
* Park Slope
* Prospect Park
Kings County (Brooklyn) Sheriff's office:
210 Joralemon St Rm 909
Brooklyn, New York 11201
(718)802-3536
The bottom line is that you saw something that greatly disturbed you and you are concerned that a woman will be harmed.
You would be surprised at how much cops already know and how much werid stuff is caught on cameras in this city. -
OH!!! I had no idea that was what was being implied! I just figured - 2 adults, talking loud enough that you could hear, in public = nobody's business.
thanks for clarifying. -
LongTimeSloper wrote: It has to do with the body going back to God in the same condition that God made it in-that is why you aren't supposed to get tattoos.
Does that mean we get to go up to Heaven with baby smooth skin? -
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Modesty.htm
Detailed explanation of what "modesty" means in Judaism.
Brooklynpotter.. throughout this thread you have done a great job trying to explain why this scene you witnessed was such a red flag. And you are correct that if someone doesn't have the background it is hard for them to understand what you saw in the way that you saw it. -
LittleRedMenace wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper]It has to do with the body going back to God in the same condition that God made it in-that is why you aren't supposed to get tattoos.
Does that mean we get to go up to Heaven with baby smooth skin?
So if we were born with hair, are we supposed to get hair transplants if we go bald? -
I didn't read this whole thread...but he could have been her landlord or something. I ran into my landlord on the train once and went and sat next to him to chit chat. He often leans in to speak because he's old and hard of hearing. He's Hasidic and I'm a nordic looking blond chick with purple/pink/green hair...so I guess it's a similar situation?
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And as a sidenote, another member of my buildings management company pretty blatantly hit on me once including shaking my hand and telling me he "loved my hair." It's never struck me as something to call the cops over
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Carmen wrote: And as a sidenote, another member of my buildings management company pretty blatantly hit on me once including shaking my hand and telling me he "loved my hair." It's never struck me as something to call the cops over
The owners of my building are Hasid. They only show up occasionally, but we do speak when we see each other.
I grew up ConservaDox, so I am aware of the "rules". However, I have never been shunned in public by an orthodox or Hasid man. I assumed it's pretty common that people "break the rules" to some extent, in the "real" world.
If the man was seen eating spare ribs, that would have raised an eyebrow for me. -
veets, thank you.
i'm going to share my story with a group of very frum women i know, and once i get their reaction i'll come back and share it. perhaps they can explain it better than i have (although i'm sure i've explained it correctly, and that there are people here who are choosing to be antagonistic.) -
raw wrote: [quote=LittleRedMenace][quote=LongTimeSloper]It has to do with the body going back to God in the same condition that God made it in-that is why you aren't supposed to get tattoos.
Does that mean we get to go up to Heaven with baby smooth skin?
So if we were born with hair, are we supposed to get hair transplants if we go bald?
Yeah, that's exactly what it means :roll: -
brooklynpotter, Last year in Prospect Park, I cannot remember what time of year, but it was nice out, I saw something very unusual: A blonde woman dressed in a short revealing skirt, high heels and walking with what as obviously a hasidic family: older man, and a man and woman who were possibly in their late 20s-30s.
I actually stopped and stared because it was very very unusual and I couldn't figure out what they were doing with this woman who 1) was wearing an outfit that while not whorish, was definitely sexy and 2) did not look Jewish at all. I remember thinking the woman was pretty and there was some tension amongst them. I remember thinking maybe she was his daughter. They pretty much walked on the grass in silence.
I wonder if this is the same girl, but I don't recall her looking Nordic. Perhaps this man/family is helping her in some way? Or perhaps she really is his daughter? -
brooklynpotter wrote: veets, thank you.
I did not mean to be antagonistic. I thought that you thought you might have seen a victim of the sex slave industry and was serious when I suggested calling the cops.
i'm going to share my story with a group of very frum women i know, and once i get their reaction i'll come back and share it. perhaps they can explain it better than i have (although i'm sure i've explained it correctly, and that there are people here who are choosing to be antagonistic.) -
raw, thank you. though if it were that i doubt it would have been out in the open on the subway.
as for the police, what they think they know vs. what's really going on in the orthodox communities is so far apart i can't even imagine calling them for something this subtle. -
LongTimeSloper wrote: [quote=raw][quote=LittleRedMenace][quote=LongTimeSloper]It has to do with the body going back to God in the same condition that God made it in-that is why you aren't supposed to get tattoos.
Does that mean we get to go up to Heaven with baby smooth skin?
So if we were born with hair, are we supposed to get hair transplants if we go bald?
Yeah, that's exactly what it means :roll:
Hey, thanks for the eye roll. That's exactly how I feel about the idea that our bodies were "made" by God.
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LittleRedMenace wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper][quote=raw][quote=LittleRedMenace][quote=LongTimeSloper]It has to do with the body going back to God in the same condition that God made it in-that is why you aren't supposed to get tattoos.
Does that mean we get to go up to Heaven with baby smooth skin?
So if we were born with hair, are we supposed to get hair transplants if we go bald?
Yeah, that's exactly what it means :roll:
Hey, thanks for the eye roll. That's exactly how I feel about the idea that our bodies were "made" by God.
To each their own, some people believe in God, some don't. Not the place for a religious discussion. -
LittleRedMenace wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper][quote=raw][quote=LittleRedMenace][quote=LongTimeSloper]It has to do with the body going back to God in the same condition that God made it in-that is why you aren't supposed to get tattoos.
Does that mean we get to go up to Heaven with baby smooth skin?
So if we were born with hair, are we supposed to get hair transplants if we go bald?
Yeah, that's exactly what it means :roll:
Hey, thanks for the eye roll. That's exactly how I feel about the idea that our bodies were "made" by God.
***************************
They were before silicone and botox and he outsourced the job to China. -
it also has a bit to do with being tattoo'd by the nazi's,
but anyways,
ive read the 1st post like 6 times.
where is the fire ?????
the only things i find creepy are
a) the OP's determination being wholly based on a stereotype.
b) presumption that the man must conform to op's exacting definition of what he should be and how he should act etc.
c) op's conclusion that a blue eyed blonde could not POSSIBLY be Jewish.
beyond that
absolutely nothing occurred.
HOWEVER if the tale included a blue hatted baby alternately drinking jim beam and then breastfeeding, i could understand a cause for alarm. -
maybe he's tired of banging his wife through a sheet and wanted to do it with a hot goyim. more power to him if he was able to pull a tall hot nordic blonde woman.
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garfunky, i think there are a few things you don't understand about hasidim. regardless, the orthodox people i've told the story to have all found it eerie, including several people from this board who PM'd me privately.
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brooklynpotter wrote: garfunky, i think there are a few things you don't understand about hasidim. regardless, the orthodox people i've told the story to have all found it eerie, including several people from this board who PM'd me privately.
FWIW, as a secular shiksa convert (analyze me to the hilt, it's ok), I find it strange. You don't have to be Ortho to think this is a strange happening. I would have thought the same things you did if I had seen them on the train that day. -
What's the point of this discussion?
Is it to make people aware that some local Chasidm MIGHT be involved in trafficing human sex slaves? And, if so, why talk about it here instead of alerting an authority who can help?
Or is the point to just complain about Chasidm men who hang out with woman who do not resemble Jewish stereotypes?
:?: -
The OP saw something which contradicted all of the rules for the Chasidim... people whose entire lives are supposed to be lived strictly according to the rules... thought it was strange and noteworthy (I tend to agree with her), and possibly suggestive of some skulduggery.
No one is claiming it has any cosmic significance. But gee, if we see little green men with ray guns on the IRT, are we supposed to be cool and not mention it on the boards? Or should we limit our remarks to babies and beer? -
For some reason I cannot find the original post that said something about brooklynpotter wanting to ask the blond woman "are you ok?" That part of the original post made me think that the blond woman might be in bad trouble.
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i'm not sure how to explain "bad trouble", only that there was no logical explanation for her being with him.
how about we forget she was blond and nordic? (even though that just added to the oddity)... regular foreign woman, nose-ring and many earrings, jeans, hot-pink carry-on, doesn't appear to speak much english, giant red suitcase. i can't say i would not have had this reaction...
except that i don't notice a whole lot of people on the subway, and i noticed this woman before i even noticed her companion: she was remarkable. even without the hasidic man, i'd have noticed her on the train because she was a striking foreign woman with a giant red suitcase wrapped in shrink wrap. then, once i saw who she was traveling with, i got extremely confused. -
Maybe the lady just got in on a bus or train and she asked the guy for directions. He told her she should take the F train to her destination, and he was going the same way. Once on the train, he saw her looking at the map or seeming worried she might miss her stop. He didn’t want to yell across the car, so he called her over to reassure her that she was going in the right direction. Because English wasn’t her first language (and maybe he had an accent too), he leaned in for emphasis or to be heard. I know your gut instinct is really important, and there must have been were subtle things that made you suspicious (your original post is missing, and I don't remember everything you wrote). But since you know a lot about Orthodox Jews, maybe that knowledge (bias) informed your view of the situation (where the situation was not exactly as you saw it). Anyhow, if the woman didn’t seem upset or distressed, hopefully you did the right thing by not interfering. --E.
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