Help, how do we fight this unfairness? [MTA fare increase]
Okay so I wrote this letter to the straphangers campaign hoping to see some sort of action and I have not even heard anything back. I feel frustrated and wish I knew of other organizations that dealt with issues such as these or I wish I knew how to start one myself. Here is my letter and if anyone else would like to also email to the straphanger's campaign please feel free to do so at http://www.straphangers.org/cntact.php
I think it is time for your organization to aid in organizing a city wide riders strike in protest of this latest fare hike. We the riders have the ultimate power because it is our money that is needed to run the MTA and we should assert that power now. I believe this is the right time for such an act because people are under a great deal of economic pressure and would be more willing to stand up and and demand to be treated fairly. The MTA having 100 marketing executives on its payroll and the previous issue of the double books are both aspects that require greater media attention. The hearings that are held regarding the fare hikes have clearly been proven pointless. This is the right time for a real positive change and your organization is in position to ensure that it occurs. You can unite the people of NY into one powerful voice whose time has come to be heard.
I think it is time for your organization to aid in organizing a city wide riders strike in protest of this latest fare hike. We the riders have the ultimate power because it is our money that is needed to run the MTA and we should assert that power now. I believe this is the right time for such an act because people are under a great deal of economic pressure and would be more willing to stand up and and demand to be treated fairly. The MTA having 100 marketing executives on its payroll and the previous issue of the double books are both aspects that require greater media attention. The hearings that are held regarding the fare hikes have clearly been proven pointless. This is the right time for a real positive change and your organization is in position to ensure that it occurs. You can unite the people of NY into one powerful voice whose time has come to be heard.
Comments
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I think it's good that you are trying to come up with a grassroots way to advocate for better transit but I think this plan is pretty impractical.
First, how do 3million people get to work if they are not using transit? Unless you intend for them to take off of work completely, which would certainly have an effect, albeit a negative one for a great many people who do not get paid time off.
Second, Adjusted for inflation subway fares are at the same level or less than they were 15 years ago. The subway fare is the best bargain in the City.
Third, The main problem, or one of the bigger ones, is not the redundant positions and inefficiencies within the MTA but the continual decrease of federal, via new york state, funding.
Fourth, okay the actual biggest problems the MTA faces is its long term pension obligations and debt service.
As transit riders we should:
1. Tell our elected representatives to lobby for more federal money
2. Support congestion pricing or at the very least support tolls on the Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, and Queensboro bridges. Apply tolls in places where they make sense - AKA the Gridlock Sam plan http://www.gridlocksam.com/congpri.pdf
3. As unpopular as it is, eliminate some of the metrocard discounts. Even though new yorkers pay a higher percentage of operating costs from the fares than any other city's mass transit system, almost nobody actually pays the $2 base fare. When the metrocard was first introduced the discounts were an incentive to get people to switch from tokens more quickly, now they are unnecessary.
There is a lot more to be said on the matter. I suggest you read Larry Littlefield's work on the matter. Especially this piece http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/generational_equity_and_the_legacy_of_today_s_politicians.html
and this one
http://www.r8ny.com/blog/larry_littlefield/the_2008_13_mta_capital_plan_our_sold_out_future_is_here.html -
I guess that was my point, that we the people do have the power to as you put it shut down the city and we deserve to be considered and have a real voice and not just humored with hearings before such decisions are made. I think most of us could afford to loose a days pay more than we could afford such a permanent fare hike. Also as I stated the MTA would have more money if they did not waste so much of it. Furthermore the whole double books fiasco seems to have been swept under the carpet. If they have no money they should start with some in house cleaning because certainly the middle class people who ride the subways have less money than the MTA execs.
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The metro system here in the city is very cheap. Try taking the underground in London where one way fare in zone 1 is over 4 pounds, that almost 7-8 dollars, or Paris, where it's also 5 to 6 dollars.
we are very spoiled that the subway and bus fares are so cheap.
For a system that transports over 4-6 million people every day, we have a deal.
New yorkers should stop complaining. -
Im a sloper wrote: Just pay the extra 50 cents. How cheap can you be? Like you can shut down the city, ohhhhhhh please!
Since you clearly missed the point, it is not about being cheap it is about fairness. Perhaps if people here thought less selfishly like you and were more united like Europeans, real positive change would come about. I guess some people are content to be sheep. -
nkotsonis wrote: The metro system here in the city is very cheap. Try taking the underground in London where one way fare in zone 1 is over 4 pounds, that almost 7-8 dollars, or Paris, where it's also 5 to 6 dollars.
we are very spoiled that the subway and bus fares are so cheap.
For a system that transports over 4-6 million people every day, we have a deal.
New yorkers should stop complaining.
People in France do not sit around and do nothing. Did you forget the youth protest against the new job laws, do you think if that was the US anything would have happened? Ofcourse not becuase Americans are not united much less politically active. So I guess you think in Paris they shouldnot have complaied either. They did manage to shut down the city though didn't they! -
Europeans understand something that you are apparently missing.
A decent underground costs money. It's not about being sheep, it's about understanding the value of a system. Im a sloper is right, you are being cheap.
Also radicalism is not the way to solve problems, look at the current destruction of Athens by radicals.
"Fairness" that's a code word for not wanting to pay.
You are very transparent. -
Yeah in France people don't just sit around. That's why the U.S. had to bail out their asses from the nazi's.
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Im a sloper wrote: Yeah in France people don't just sit around. That's why the U.S. had to bail out their asses from the nazi's.
ROFLCOPTERS
;p
I normally make it a point to NOT read posts that are spammed across multiple forums, but had to see what was going on after Slopers comment ;p
Not really the best idea for the times.
Bad economy, people who work in the city from brooklyn (myself)... we really dont have a choice. I need the MTA. Luckily my company lets me use pretax dollars to pay for my monthly pass...
the hike sucks and I am against it, but there must be a better way to go about it.seasidearms wrote:
On a side note, since you seem to value other countries so much more than us sheepish Americans, you can move out at anytime. That'll show us!
Since you clearly missed the point, it is not about being cheap it is about fairness. Perhaps if people here thought less selfishly like you and were more united like Europeans, real positive change would come about. I guess some people are content to be sheep...
Europeans understand something that you are apparently missing. -
So, is there just going to be a fare hike or are car drivers going to pay for some of this also? I had heard stories of bridge tolls and such to pay for the MTA also.
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Seasidearms - I understand your frustration. When the subway just stops working and we are left waiting in stalled cars with announcements that tell us NOTHING about what is going on, I get pissed off about potential rate increases too. It is also very simplistic to compare New York City's subway with the Tube or the Metro since those systems are funded differently and many workers, especially in France, receive additional subsidies to lower the actual cost.
That being said - I don't think the answer is a strike. We need to encourage our Brooklyn elected officials to support tolls on the East River bridges and congestion pricing. The MTA needs a dedicated revenue source, like a property or payroll tax that stays relatively stable in tough economic times, and we need more funding from the Feds. I am optimistic that these tough times will convince our elected officials to make the tough decisions to keep this vital service running well. -
there should be tolls $2 on the harlem river bridges, or same as a subway fare so maybe $2.25, and the standard MTA rate on the East River bridges.
that's what's proposed anyway -
Wow-so everyone is all for tolls on the bridges and for drivers to pay the same as subway riders? Now, why is that? Don't drivers already pay fees that subway riders don't? Why should drivers be hit with even more expenses?
and, again, please remember I am coming from the viewpoint of someone who's husband drives to make a living-not just for the hell of it. -
you know what pisses me off?
The battery tunnel...
The tunnel is there for a "shortcut" into the city. Naturally we pay for that shortcut.
But why pay if you are going to hit massive traffic in the morning? That annoys me to no end. (i used to travel it A LOT in the wee morning hours a few years back) -
LongTimeSloper wrote: Wow-so everyone is all for tolls on the bridges and for drivers to pay the same as subway riders? Now, why is that? Don't drivers already pay fees that subway riders don't? Why should drivers be hit with even more expenses?
Yes, drivers pay certain fees that subway riders don't. And subway riders pay fees drivers don't. Why does it cost $2 to cross the manhattan bridge on a train but not in a car?
and, again, please remember I am coming from the viewpoint of someone who's husband drives to make a living-not just for the hell of it.
Also, this:
"Federal Tax Burdens and Expenditures: New York is a Donor State
New York taxpayers receive less federal funding per dollar of federal taxes paid than the average state. Per dollar of Federal tax collected in 2005, New York citizens received approximately $0.79 in the way of federal spending. This ranks the state 42nd lowest nationally and represents a decline from 1995, when New York received $0.87 per dollar of taxes in federal spending (ranked 40th nationally). Neighboring states and the amount of federal spending received per dollar of federal taxes collected were: Pennsylvania ($1.07), New Jersey ($0.61), Connecticut ($0.66), and Vermont ($1.08)."
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/46.html -
[quote="nkotsonis"]Europeans understand something that you are apparently missing.
A decent underground costs money. It's not about being sheep, it's about understanding the value of a system. Im a sloper is right, you are being cheap.
Also radicalism is not the way to solve problems, look at the current destruction of Athens by radicals.
"Fairness" that's a code word for not wanting to pay.
You are very transparent.[/quote}
They are not radicals. I am Greek and I for one am damn glad they are doing what they are doing!! I wish I was there with them! I bet if people here revolted the same way so many cops would stop killing and assaulting innoccent people. Furthermore I drive so really the hike will not affect me directly at all, but that does not mean I do not see the unfairness of it. For those so willing to pay more for less service do you wonder why the MTA has so many marketing execs and why they do not attempt to raise money by cleaning house first and only as a last resort raise the fares? -
hitokiri wrote: you know what pisses me off?
FWIW the volume of cars using the brooklyn bridge is about 50% higher than the battery tunnel so the tunnel is usually the faster way into manhattan.
The battery tunnel...
The tunnel is there for a "shortcut" into the city. Naturally we pay for that shortcut.
But why pay if you are going to hit massive traffic in the morning? That annoys me to no end. (i used to travel it A LOT in the wee morning hours a few years back)LongTimeSloper wrote:
Also, any toll system should be one-way and perhaps have a limit of being charged once or at the most twice a day so those whose businesses require them to drive about don't get killed. What they really want to discourage is the hundreds of thousands of single occupant cars entering manhattan every day. About 1/3 of which only pass through manhattan on the way to jersey, IIRC. I had all these numbers in my head a few years ago when i was writing my urban policy papers.
Wow-so everyone is all for tolls on the bridges and for drivers to pay the same as subway riders? Now, why is that? Don't drivers already pay fees that subway riders don't? Why should drivers be hit with even more expenses?
and, again, please remember I am coming from the viewpoint of someone who's husband drives to make a living-not just for the hell of it. -
Oh-I agree with the single occupancy cars going in and out of manhattan. I just worry that if tolls were implemented on these bridges, that people like my husband who drive for a living will get killed by them.
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your family must belong to PASOK if you condone the destruction of millions of dollars of private property to protest the killing of a person attacking a police officer who defended himself within the boundaries of the law.
The proper way is to have hearings and inquiries, not to destroy and rampage.
You must have loved the Crown Heights riots during the Dinkins administration.
A civilized society does not destroy for the sake of destruction.
Or do you also condone anarchy? -
Get your facts straight first, the boy was not attacking anyone he was there celebrating a friends name day. The police officer is now saying he fired elsewhere and his bullet ricochet but the medical examiner has concluded that is not possible based ont the position of entry of the bullet. What I do not condone is the police thinking they are judge and jury and untouchable like NY cops think. And they have destroyed police cars and police property mostly. To answer your question, I do not believe in civil protests they accomplish nothing. How many NY cops have had proper inquiries and nothing ever happened to them? Give me a break!
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seasidearms wrote: Did you forget the youth protest against the new job laws, do you think if that was the US anything would have happened?
And how high is unemployment in France? Good forbid someone should pass laws that would increase productivity and increase everyone's well being. Europeans perhaps have more a sense of entitled than Park Slopers! -
Back on Topic
LongTimeSloper - I feel bad for the people, like your husband, who have no choice and who will have to pay more, but I think the point is (or should be) that the burden of paying for mass transit not fall only on the shoulders of those who use it. Mass transit benefits everyone, including your husband, by serving as the economic engine of the region. If the subways fell apart again, more people whould drive and traffic, which is already unbearable, would get even worse. The economy of this city is limited because we just can't fit any more people, goods or services through the existing infrastructure. By building better transit and taking better care of our roads and bridges we can get the economy of this city growing again.
We need more revenue to finance the system and it should come from tolls, fares, taxes and federal support. -
Vandalizing Banks and stores are not police property.
You should watch the BBC.
Do you have relatives in Athens?
My family lives right near the area, and they are living in fear that the hoodlums will break into their building as they have other residential properties in the area.
Living in fear for something you were not involved in is not a civilized way to live.
To live in "terror", what's that called?
Oh yeah, terrorism!!! -
You forget that no one is "building better transit and taking better care of our roads." All they are doing is making working people pay more money for worse roads and less transit service. How is that acceptable exactly? Also people "have no choice" as you put it, only if they accept what is given and are not willing to ask for more and better solutions. Her husband should not have to pay more and neither should transit riders unless it is truly the last resort and in this case it clearly is not. What successfully run company would continually raise their prices reduce services and quality and do NOTHING else to find a real solution?
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"seasidearms" wrote: You forget that no one is "building better transit and taking better care of our roads." All they are doing is making working people pay more money for worse roads and less transit service. How is that acceptable exactly? Also people "have no choice" as you put it, only if they accept what is given and are not willing to ask for more and better solutions. Her husband should not have to pay more and neither should transit riders unless it is truly the last resort and in this case it clearly is not. What successfully run company would continually raise their prices reduce services and quality and do NOTHING else to find a real solution?
You are confusing the MTA with the Bloomberg Administration. The roads are the responsibility of the Transportation Commisioner, who happens to live here in Park Slope. It's Senator Schumer's wife. They live right by the Park. If you want better roads, you should protest in front of her building. -
Jamzer wrote: Back on Topic
Yes, i see the points you are making. It is just very hard to see more money coming out of our pockets at times like this. it's not like we make a ton of money to begin with, we live here because we were smart (or lucky), and bought many years ago. We are well below the average income level for this neighborhood and if hubby had to pay an extra $80 per week in tolls (say, if he had to pay each and every time he went over a bridge), that is quite a bit of money to us.
LongTimeSloper - I feel bad for the people, like your husband, who have no choice and who will have to pay more, but I think the point is (or should be) that the burden of paying for mass transit not fall only on the shoulders of those who use it. Mass transit benefits everyone, including your husband, by serving as the economic engine of the region. If the subways fell apart again, more people whould drive and traffic, which is already unbearable, would get even worse. The economy of this city is limited because we just can't fit any more people, goods or services through the existing infrastructure. By building better transit and taking better care of our roads and bridges we can get the economy of this city growing again.
We need more revenue to finance the system and it should come from tolls, fares, taxes and federal support.
I just pray that if it ever did happen, that there would be concessions made for commercial vehicles where they wouldn't have to pay the tolls over and over again all day long. -
seasidearms wrote: You forget that no one is "building better transit and taking better care of our roads." All they are doing is making working people pay more money for worse roads and less transit service. How is that acceptable exactly? Also people "have no choice" as you put it, only if they accept what is given and are not willing to ask for more and better solutions. Her husband should not have to pay more and neither should transit riders unless it is truly the last resort and in this case it clearly is not. What successfully run company would continually raise their prices reduce services and quality and do NOTHING else to find a real solution?
You are very idealistic, but what exactly are you protesting? Bad subway service? How do you improve it? By striking? That won't work. We need a funding scheme that can pay for expanded and improved mass transit, and we need to spend money to maintain our existing road, bridge and tunnnel it. If you have any ideas, I would love to hear it. -
Jamzer brings up a very good point about the infrastructure not being able to accomodate the influx of people. However, for those of us who have lived long enough, you have to look at the stupidity of the politicians and their misconceived notions of city planning.
The congestion problem that Manhattan currently suffers from can be traced to the Lindsay Administration and even further to Robert Moses.
Robert Moses, during the 50's was the king of new york. He controlled development. He was also the one that really caused the Dodgers to leave Brooklyn. O'Malley wanted to put the new Ebbetts field where Ratner is currently building his Arena for The Nets. O'Malley wanted to take advantage of the subway lines. Moses wanted the Dodgers in Queens, ironically where Shea currently exists, because he had a love affair with the car and motor transportaton. Ironic isn't it that in retrospect, O'malley was right. So everyone started to buy cars and the subway system, surprisingly, started to deteriorate because of decreased ridership.
Lindsay, in his eternal wisdom, wanted to increase subway transportation, so his administration decided that any buildings built during that time period, could not have garages. They all thought, that the people will be forced to take public transportation, and the system would be saved.
Well, people did not take the subway, they bought cars, and we now have the current congestion problem.
Amazing. -
I do not feel I am being idealistic. I think I am being a realist actually. In regards to transit, I propose they lay off some of the many marketing executives they have for starters, open their books to the public, including those double books from a few years ago, reduce the salaries of the executives since they are unable to adequately manage and are in a constant fiscal crisis and increase federal funding for NY. There are even governments whose officials have taken pay cuts when their nation is trouble.
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seasidearms wrote: I do not feel I am being idealistic. I think I am being a realist actually. In regards to transit, I propose they lay off some of the many marketing executives they have for starters, open their books to the public, including those double books from a few years ago, reduce the salaries of the executives since they are unable to adequately manage and are in a constant fiscal crisis and increase federal funding for NY. There are even governments whose officials have taken pay cuts when their nation is trouble.
No, not realistic at all. The MTA has a projected $1.4 billion deficit in its operating budget next year and a projected $3.0 billion deficit for 2012. Firing some marketing people and lowering executive compensation won't come close to scratching the surface. And sure there is probably plenty of waste, fraud and abuse, but a billion bucks worth? I doubt it. Also - you don't even begin to address the massive investment that is needed to keep this city running and growing.
You have some well thought out complaints, but only a vague and incomplete idea of how to fix the problem. Maybe that is why the Straphangers Campaign chose to ignore your letter. Why don't you educate yourself on how the system is run and financed - this city needs more informed citizens and as many good ideas for how to fix the problems as possible. And come to think of it, I am now fully supportive of a one-day strike. At least I would get a seat on the subway that day
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So are you saying the only solutions is to constantly raise the fare even though that seems to solve nothing in the long run because the same exact problem resurfaces? How is that a realistic solution? My idea is not vague it is on point and as I stated it is part of solution not THE magic answer. At least I am not just sitting back and saying ok here take more of their money and solve nothing anyway.
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