DOT to Propose 2 way protected bike path on PPW
Comments
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people will eventually stop double parking when then get sick of being stuck in traffic by other people double parking.
the way you are talking one would think there were constantly dozens of double parked cars next to the park. that is not the case. -
people will never stop double parking. ...a drive to Brooklyn College on Flatbush ave will prove this.
...but that doesn't mean you can't take steps to make it better for everyone else.
P.S. Make the meters last only 2 hours and you'll find that people send their teenager from the park to feed the meter every two hours (no effect).
But if you jack up meter prices high enough and there will always be spots. ...and perhaps less double parking -
whynot_31 wrote: people will never stop double parking. ...a drive to Brooklyn College on Flatbush ave will prove this.
People do stop double parking. Traffic is moving much better now on 7th Ave. because of continuous enforcement. People know that you can't get away with anything from Flatbush to the Prospect.
...but that doesn't mean you can't take steps to make it better for everyone else.
P.S. Make the meters last only 2 hours and you'll find that people send their teenager from the park to feed the meter every two hours (no effect).
But if you jack up meter prices high enough and there will always be spots. ...and perhaps less double parking
I also agree that meters should be much more expensive, there is no reasson for street parking to be so much cheaper than private garages. But meters or any physical barriers are not part of the DoT plan. They are not looking to do much more than paint. -
ringrunner wrote: People do stop double parking. Traffic is moving much better now on 7th Ave. because of continuous enforcement. People know that you can't get away with anything from Flatbush to the Prospect.
True!
I just took a quick "stroll" down 7th ave from Flatbush to 9th street using googlemaps streetview. There were only 2 cars double parked on that whole stretch, not counting 2 trucks unloading by the Key Food, and one ambulance double parked across from Methodist. -
whynot_31 wrote: people will never stop double parking. ...a drive to Brooklyn College on Flatbush ave will prove this.
fwiw, 2 hours means 2 hours. you can't pay more money to stay longer than 2 hours.
...but that doesn't mean you can't take steps to make it better for everyone else.
P.S. Make the meters last only 2 hours and you'll find that people send their teenager from the park to feed the meter every two hours (no effect).
But if you jack up meter prices high enough and there will always be spots. ...and perhaps less double parking
well, you can, but that's not how its supposed to work. -
vidro3 wrote: fwiw, 2 hours means 2 hours. you can't pay more money to stay longer than 2 hours.
Yeah, the meter readers used to mark tires with chalk to indicate the time, and then ticket them if they exceeded it, even if the owner fed the meter again.
well, you can, but that's not how its supposed to work. -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=vidro3]fwiw, 2 hours means 2 hours. you can't pay more money to stay longer than 2 hours.
Yeah, the meter readers used to mark tires with chalk to indicate the time, and then ticket them if they exceeded it, even if the owner fed the meter again.
well, you can, but that's not how its supposed to work.
which is a beautiful thing. ...but I'd make it four hours, cause I'm a nice guy. -
Carnivore wrote: Getting rid of the bus is a terrible idea. Access to the park that doesn't require a car should be maximized.
Lots of "shoulds". But really, is there a problem? Is this bike lane really needed?
With the reality that drivers won't "give up" double parking, what I am saying is that this double parking should come at the expense of lanes otherwise allocated to cars (the left legal parking lane), not at the expense of a bike lane. Drivers can't have it all. Don't pout and say a bike lane will cause too much traffic when the bike lane isn't the problem, the fact that 3 out of the 5 lanes are being used for stationary cars is the problem.
I don't think so. This thing about PPW being an race track is ridiculous and nothing that can't be managed with lights and the elusive enforcement of the laws which we both seem to want but know will most likely never happen.
Yes there will be traffic and yes there will be noise, but I don't live near PPW and I'll just know to avoid PPW and take the Flatbush Expressway that runs between Prospect Park and the Botanical Gardens instead (now there's a strip that needs enforcement and a bike lane.) -
MeredithB wrote: But really, is there a problem? Is this bike lane really needed?
It's damned well needed more than a lane reserved for illegal double parking!
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MeredithB wrote: Is this bike lane really needed?
Yes. This bike lane, and thousands of other bike lanes are needed.
Cars guzzle gasoline, resulting in a vast transfer of wealth to the Oil companies and the Saudis. Cars spew exhaust, which is unhealthy for pedestrians, and contributes to global warming. Meanwhile, there are 40,000 auto-related deaths in the US every year. Cars suck. -
Yeah, but cars are cash positive to the state's economy (license fees, registration fees, insurance fees, tickets and fines, tolls, etc) all of which go to pay for the upkeep of roads, highways and bridges while bikes are cash negative. So unless bikers are willing to start coming out of pocket to pay for these wonderful eco friendly routes that also require upkeep and maintenance they need to understand that cars are a necessary evil.
People seem to forget that there is a cost to everything and that while transportation is subsidized, autos and trucks pay significantly more of their own share than mass transit riders, bikers, or walkers do. It might be nice to have a million bike lanes, but exactly where is the money for maintenance and upkeep coming from? It comes from the DOT budget which is funded in part by licenses and usage fees plus excise taxes (remember the gas tax issues of a couple of summers ago?). Think about the amount of money collected in NYC in one day for parking tickets and then tell me how that money will be replaced in the budget if car usage was reduced by 25% and replaced by bikers. -
Danny Hellman wrote: [quote=MeredithB] Is this bike lane really needed?
Yes. This bike lane, and thousands of other bike lanes are needed.
Cars guzzle gasoline, resulting in a vast transfer of wealth to the Oil companies and the Saudis. Cars spew exhaust, which is unhealthy for pedestrians, and contributes to global warming. Meanwhile, there are 40,000 auto-related deaths in the US every year. Cars suck.
So you want to force people to use bicycles?
SARCASM: Get rid of all cars. If you can not lug that cooler to the park via mass transit, or if you do not live close enough to do so, then don't go to Prospect Park, stay in your own hood. And all you old and disabled people, well you need to start walking more and riding more. And anyone who is in a car that is not totally full, well you must be driving for your own ego, you probably didn't actually need to drive. Going to Costco and Fairway, well you can do that by mass transit and lug all the shit home on mass transit. Or just shop locally even if your supermarket sucks, you live there, support your local business. -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=MeredithB]But really, is there a problem? Is this bike lane really needed?
It's damned well needed more than a lane reserved for illegal double parking!
IMO, neither are needed. The money could be better spent. It's fine as it is. -
homeowner wrote: Yeah, but cars are cash positive to the state's economy (license fees, registration fees, insurance fees, tickets and fines, tolls, etc) all of which go to pay for the upkeep of roads, highways and bridges while bikes are cash negative. So unless bikers are willing to start coming out of pocket to pay for these wonderful eco friendly routes that also require upkeep and maintenance they need to understand that cars are a necessary evil.
Maybe at the State level, but overall, nothing is subsidized in the U.S. as much as the automobile. Everything from the maintenance of the roads and highways (which license and usage fees and excise taxes and even tickets don't come close to covering), the subsidies on the steel the cars are built from, the cost of the wars fought to protect the oil that fuels them, the bailouts for the companies that produce them, comes out of the general budget paid for by everyone's taxes including non-drivers. Overall, non-drivers subsidize drivers in our society, not the other way around.
People seem to forget that there is a cost to everything and that while transportation is subsidized, autos and trucks pay significantly more of their own share than mass transit riders, bikers, or walkers do. It might be nice to have a million bike lanes, but exactly where is the money for maintenance and upkeep coming from? It comes from the DOT budget which is funded in part by licenses and usage fees plus excise taxes (remember the gas tax issues of a couple of summers ago?). Think about the amount of money collected in NYC in one day for parking tickets and then tell me how that money will be replaced in the budget if car usage was reduced by 25% and replaced by bikers. -
MeredithB wrote:
I would LOVE to force people to use bicycles, but unfortunately I lack sweeping dictatorial powers. Nobody's seriously talking about taking away your precious little putt-putt, or your God-given right to pollute the air.
So you want to force people to use bicycles?
SARCASM: Get rid of all cars. If you can not lug that cooler to the park via mass transit, or if you do not live close enough to do so, then don't go to Prospect Park, stay in your own hood. And all you old and disabled people, well you need to start walking more and riding more. And anyone who is in a car that is not totally full, well you must be driving for your own ego, you probably didn't actually need to drive. Going to Costco and Fairway, well you can do that by mass transit and lug all the shit home on mass transit. Or just shop locally even if your supermarket sucks, you live there, support your local business.
Bike lanes simply give people the OPTION of riding their bikes with a shred of protection from a million motoring fuckheads who make insane u-turns, yap on their cell phones while driving, open doors into traffic whenever the whim strikes them, etcetera.
My heart aches at the thought of you having to share the road with bicyclists every time you choose to tool on over to the Costco for a skid of Charmin. I know you don't want to hear this, but if you feel so strongly about not sharing the road with bicyclists, you might want to rethink your decision to live in a densely-populated urban setting, and consider a move to Nassau or Suffolk County. -
I'm going to kick myself in the ass for even getting involved here but who's going to pay to make every single subway entrance wheelchair accessible?
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Anastasia Beaverhausen wrote: I'm going to kick myself in the ass for even getting involved here but who's going to pay to make every single subway entrance wheelchair accessible?
No one. Several years ago, EPVA sued and got a mandate to make the most used 100 stations accessible, and access-a-ride service.
...there is no plan to make them all accessible. -
whynot_31 wrote: [quote=Anastasia Beaverhausen]I'm going to kick myself in the ass for even getting involved here but who's going to pay to make every single subway entrance wheelchair accessible?
No one. Several years ago, EPVA sued and got a mandate to make the most used 100 stations accessible, and access-a-ride service.
...there is no plan to make them all accessible.
I was basing my question on DH's wish to be a carless city. I would assume that meant no buses or access-a-ride vans (which suck ass, by the way). I should have been more clear. -
Anastasia Beaverhausen wrote: [quote=whynot_31][quote=Anastasia Beaverhausen]I'm going to kick myself in the ass for even getting involved here but who's going to pay to make every single subway entrance wheelchair accessible?
No one. Several years ago, EPVA sued and got a mandate to make the most used 100 stations accessible, and access-a-ride service.
...there is no plan to make them all accessible.
I was basing my question on DH's wish to be a carless city. I would assume that meant no buses or access-a-ride vans (which suck ass, by the way). I should have been more clear.
Obviously buses, taxis, delivery trucks, and those deadly Access-A-Ride vans can't be done away with. What should be done away with is the unquestioned position of primacy that the auto now enjoys, where any encroachment on complete, unrestricted automotive freedom is considered sacrilege.
No sane person would seriously propose doing away with all cars at this time. However, there are simply too many cars, and it's not healthy.
When I hear someone complain that a proposed bike lane will make it impossible for folks to double park and get to Costco as quickly as they'd like, I'm put in mind of a bed-ridden 900 lb person whining that they can't live without their daily breakfast of two dozen eggs and an entire package of bacon. -
Danny Hellman wrote: When I hear someone complain that a proposed bike lane will make it impossible for folks to double park and get to Costco as quickly as they'd like, I'm put in mind of a bed-ridden 900 lb person whining that they can't live without their daily breakfast of two dozen eggs and an entire package of bacon.
When I hear of car-hating bicyclists proposing an unneeded bike lane, I'm put in the same mind. -
MeredithB wrote:
The bike lane IS needed, just not by you. More people than ever are choosing to commute by bike, and the streets need to be made safe for them.
When I hear of car-hating bicyclists proposing an unneeded bike lane, I'm put in the same mind.
Clearly you feel entitled to every inch of the road, and are unwilling to share with others who choose not to drive cars. I invite you to show me the portion of the Bible that reads,
"God created the Heavens and the Earth;
and He made roads upon the Earth;
and He made cars to drive on the roads of the Earth;
and He made lazy shitheads to drive the cars;
and He said unto the lazy shitheads,
"be fruitful, and multiply,
for I give these roads unto you;
unto you alone and to no other.
Share not these roads, ye lazy shitheads,
lest your trip to Costco be made longer."
You might find this passage in the minutes of a mid-20th Century Standard Oil or General Motors board meeting, but I don't think it's in the Bible. -
Prospect Park is one big bike lane. Last I checked it goes from PPSW to GAP.
Just because you hate all cars, does not mean all bike lanes are needed. -
this is a great thread...my 2 cents:
a bike lane is worthless if its only on PPSW (Once again that side of the park gets the pretty perks...Prospect Park is a wonderful case study for classism in NYC)...anyway the bike lane should be built around the perimeter of the park. and a parking lane should be removed to accommodate it.
i was absolutely disgusted by the amount of automobile traffic along all sides of the park this past weekend.
i also think there are way too many empty, slow, loud buses that don't help matters -
and oh yeah...
Car Free Prospect Park!! -
MeredithB wrote: Prospect Park is one big bike lane. Last I checked it goes from PPSW to GAP.
The bike line in the Park is one way and hilly.
Just because you hate all cars, does not mean all bike lanes are needed.
I don't hate cars, I own one.
So much of public surfaces in this city are reserved for cars. I don't mind giving up some for a bike lane. -
Now your crying about hills forchissake? Jeesus.
And there are no one way anythings when you're on a bicycle.
Don't believe me?
Ask the local Chinese food delivery guy. -
I am not crying about the hills, but if you want to get from one place to another as strait, flat route is needed.
The Park is one way. -
oscarfrye wrote:
Too true. The rich side of the park gets a bike lane so stroller moms & nannies can have free reign of the sidewalk. Meanwhile, the less affluent sides will have bikes on the sidewalk terrorizing pedestrians, and bikes in the street, dodging some of the craziest traffic imaginable, (the circle at Coney Island Ave & Parkside, the intersection at Parkside and Ocean Ave, and Eastern Pkway between GAP and Washington Ave? Brrrr!).
a bike lane is worthless if its only on PPSW (Once again that side of the park gets the pretty perks...Prospect Park is a wonderful case study for classism in NYC) -
Danny Hellman wrote: [quote=MeredithB] Is this bike lane really needed?
Yes. This bike lane, and thousands of other bike lanes are needed.
Cars guzzle gasoline, resulting in a vast transfer of wealth to the Oil companies and the Saudis. Cars spew exhaust, which is unhealthy for pedestrians, and contributes to global warming. Meanwhile, there are 40,000 auto-related deaths in the US every year. Cars suck.
Canada is the single largest exporter of oil to the United States. Overall pollution is down compared to prior years and the most polluted is Calif. so you're lucky. -
So, we can keep importing oil from Canada and less from less politically correct places.
and
Maybe we can continue the less pollution trend
But, it is not just about more bikes. It is about traffic calming.
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