Bill Moyers message for Obama re: health reform

doctorj wrote: [quote=pokersloper][quote=mr. met]Nixon tried to pass universal health care? is that true?

Absolutely. If I recall, I read that at Truth Dig, but it could have been somewhere else.

Nixon's plan, opposed by Ted Kennedy, does seem to have been preferable to and more comprehensive than Obama's:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/opinion/31krugman.html

Good article, I missed this one. Shame Nixon had his vices, he was so smart and talented when he was not breaking the law.

mr. met wrote: sorry. 40 million? 45? why don't you answer the question?

uh, President Obama lowered it to 30 million tonight. 50 states, 57 states. who's counting.

mr. met wrote: cash for clunkers failed?

They were originally going to use 1 billion of the taxpayers money and the program was to last 6 months. Surprise, it wasn't enough money and it lasted one week. Add two billion more of the taxpayers money and that lasted about a month. A lot of dealers still haven't been paid after 2000 people were assigned to handle the paperwork. 41% of the purchases were from Japanese auto makers. The fuel consumption touted by President Obama and co. that was "saved" by replacing inefficient cars with more efficient cars was reduced by 0.2% about a days worth of gas.

The program removed 700,000 cars from the market that lower income people buy.

So yes, it was successful for the United Auto Workers Union. Too bad small businesses didn't get that money instead.

And again, if they can't handle this paperwork , what in the world do you think will happen to your important medical info that is needed to make the decisions for your healthcare?

how do you suggest that we give everyone health care?

dakotas way wrote: And again, if they can't handle this paperwork , what in the world do you think will happen to your important medical info that is needed to make the decisions for your healthcare?

and yet the government is able to do things like track taxes with relative accuracy and operate an Armed Forces that fights all over the world. methinks you're simplifying and exaggerating one example just a bit.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29988909/sick_and_wrong

best article i have read on the subject

The buck stops here:

Boygabriel wrote: [quote=pokersloper][quote=Boygabriel]what about the 5,000 dead Americans in Iraq and the aluminum tubes and yellowcake from Niger?

Yeah, what exactly is the Democratic president, the Democratic House and the Democratic Senate doing about this?

That's tangential to my point about your fantasy of holding Presidents accountable for lying, whether in court, to Congress, or to the American people.

If you want to start a thread about what the Dems should about Iraq, I'm happy to discuss.

I am just responding to topics you bring up. If you go on tangents, don't be surprised if someone responds.

Boygabriel wrote: Now what about the 5,000 dead Americans in Iraq and the aluminum tubes and yellowcake from Niger?

I responded to your question about Iraq. Your tangent, my response.

Boygabriel wrote: I have nothing else to add about holding lying presidents accountable and apparently neither do you.

Oh, I have plenty of thoughts on lying presidents. For one, gay organizations and women's rights groups have completely remained silent after Obama made campaign promises to them that were lies.

Abortion law promised - not passed
repeal of don't ask don't tell promised - didn't happen

One of the reasons I could so easily vote for McCain, as a gay rights and pro choice person, is that it was very clear that Obama would never mention these issues again after the election. We all got duped when Bill Clinton promised to allow gays in the military, instead, we got don't ask, don't tell. Obama voters got duped again. But Bush hate is so high, that folks are willing to accept Obama's lies, failures and flip flops. Man, what a mandate Obama has and he still has no backbone.

Until Democrats actually fight for what they believe in, I have no problem voting for republicans like John McCain.

Uh oh, BoyG might accuse me of a tangent! yawn.

doctorj wrote: [quote=eggcream]We also need Tort Reform but the left is silent on that.

I note that Obama brought up Tort Reform during his speech last night. Maybe you don't think he's on the left?

Well, I know you were asking Eggcream, who I don't think is doing the best job of expressing conservative views, but let's look at the facts:

Abortion - Obama does nothing
Gays in the military - Obama does nothing
Gay marraige - Obama's God says no, so Obama says no.
Iraq - the battle rages on under Obama's leadership
Afghanistan - Obama sends in more and more troops every day
Wiretapping - Obama decides that Bush was correct
Torture - Obama decides to bury the evidence
Taxes - Obama hires a guy with fuzzy math to run the IRS
Drugs - Obama went from legalization to pot is bad.
Health Care - Obama gives us bubkis

If Obama is a friend of the left, the left sure doesn't need enemies!

pokersloper wrote: [quote=doctorj][quote=eggcream]We also need Tort Reform but the left is silent on that.

I note that Obama brought up Tort Reform during his speech last night. Maybe you don't think he's on the left?

Well, I know you were asking Eggcream, who I don't think is doing the best job of expressing conservative views, but let's look at the facts:

Abortion - Obama does nothing
Gays in the military - Obama does nothing
Gay marraige - Obama's God says no, so Obama says no.
Iraq - the battle rages on under Obama's leadership
Afghanistan - Obama sends in more and more troops every day
Wiretapping - Obama decides that Bush was correct
Torture - Obama decides to bury the evidence
Taxes - Obama hires a guy with fuzzy math to run the IRS
Drugs - Obama went from legalization to pot is bad.
Health Care - Obama gives us bubkis

If Obama is a friend of the left, the left sure doesn't need enemies!

Oh, and my favorite Obamism. Obama promises Israelis that Jerusalem will be undivided then the next day promises Palestinians that Jerusalem will be shared. Obama, the master of nuance. So funny.

Boygabriel wrote: [quote=pokersloper][quote=Boygabriel]I have nothing else to add about holding lying presidents accountable and apparently neither do you.

Oh, I have plenty of thoughts on lying presidents. For one, gay organizations and women's rights groups have completely remained silent after Obama made campaign promises to them that were lies.

Abortion law promised - not passed
repeal of don't ask don't tell promised - didn't happen

One of the reasons I could so easily vote for McCain, as a gay rights and pro choice person, is that it was very clear that Obama would never mention these issues again after the election. We all got duped when Bill Clinton promised to allow gays in the military, instead, we got don't ask, don't tell. Obama voters got duped again. But Bush hate is so high, that folks are willing to accept Obama's lies, failures and flip flops. Man, what a mandate Obama has and he still has no backbone.

Until Democrats actually fight for what they believe in, I have no problem voting for republicans like John McCain.

Uh oh, BoyG might accuse me of a tangent! yawn.

yup. empty campaign promises. Obama isn't the first, nor the last, nor close to the worst.

Remember compassionate conservatism? that was awesome.

The thing is, when Bush made a promise, he tried to keep it. Whether or not you agreed with Bush, Bush did many of the things he said he would. What exactly has Obama done with his huge mandate?

mr. met wrote: to be fair, obama hasn't been in office that long, and he is trying for health care reform. it will happen eventually. whether it's the reform that's best is another story.

you keep posting long lists of obama's promises. you should give him more than a year to fulfill all of them. be realistic and give him a chance, at least.

the President of the United States of America can't multitask? What happened to "Yes we can"?

the President of the United States of America can't multitask? What happened to "Yes we can"?

you sound like one of the people that believed america would be magically transformed the day after the election.