Rep. Wilson calls Obama a liar -then shuts down his website
Comments
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modsquad wrote: You my friend deliberately edited a post to make it look like I was stupid enough to blame Carter for the Iraqi wars.
Actually no, I was editing it before you posted your next statement. You just hit send first.
Care to respond to the substance of what I said? -
No can do from the Palm. You'll have anice day!
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Carnivore wrote: [quote=pokersloper]I worked with a teacher (now a principal) who refused to walk into a classroom teaching the holocaust because she felt the holocaust didn't happen. Her view was that discussing the holocaust was a way to ignore the plight of the Palestinians. She is a democrat. If I were Carnivore, I would say, "The face of the democratic party is this person." But no, I try and keep it fair. I try not to pick out the extreme left and present them as the face of the democratic party. What good could that possible due?
To respond to your edit:
This hypothetical person you've brought up .
No, real person. Please stop lying. -
I have to head out for the day too. But as MacArthur said when he left the Philippines, "I shall return!"
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pokersloper wrote: [quote=Carnivore][quote=pokersloper]I worked with a teacher (now a principal) who refused to walk into a classroom teaching the holocaust because she felt the holocaust didn't happen. Her view was that discussing the holocaust was a way to ignore the plight of the Palestinians. She is a democrat. If I were Carnivore, I would say, "The face of the democratic party is this person." But no, I try and keep it fair. I try not to pick out the extreme left and present them as the face of the democratic party. What good could that possible due?
To respond to your edit:
This hypothetical person you've brought up .
No, real person. Please stop lying.
Just look at his Gang Rape quote. He posts lies about Beck, in a Wilson thread, then when called on it says I was pretending to be offended. So you must be speaking about a hypothetical person if he says so. -
modsquad wrote: [quote=Carnivore][quote=modsquad][quote=Carnivore][quote=modsquad]Well a good part of it anyway.
A good part of it can be laid at the feet of every U.S. President since WWII.
Make up your mind you said I can't go back 30 years. Now you're going back 60 or 70.
You're deliberately obfuscating. The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30. The Middle East situation in general (primarily regarding the Israel-Palestine situation) has it's roots much deeper than that. Neither began with the Carter administration.
You my friend deliberately edited a post to make it look like I was stupid enough to blame Carter for the Iraqi wars.
Wow. So awful. Whatever happened to discussing real issues on the merits? Instead, we get the Carnivore shuffle. Carnivore likes to pretend that she is arguing with far right wingers so she doens't have to talk issues, talk about Obama's lies, and talk about the original topic of the thread.
Obama lies and breaks promises. He is doing so in full sight. He is lying about his floundering and "lost cause" health care reform (according to the NY Times). And Carnivore is worried about a political party that is out of power and in shambles. So funny. -
pokersloper wrote:
Yes, she (Carnivore) also has great legs.
Wow. So awful. Whatever happened to discussing real issues on the merits? Instead, we get the Carnivore shuffle. Carnivore likes to pretend that she is arguing with far right wingers so she doens't have to talk issues, -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=modsquad]You posted the cartoon this morning above the gun freaks. You have chosen the face of the Republican Party you wish to fight. A bit like shooting fish is a barrel?
No, you're the one who's deliberately mischaracterizing the mainstream of the two parties.
That cartoon is an accurate representation of the way the Republican party has been presenting themselves.
Not true, the cartoon represents your cynical and close minded view of what republicans think by focusing on folks such as Limbaugh and those featured on Fox New. I don't assume Michael Moore and his lying ilk represent you or speaks for you or other libs. While I disagree with you at times, I have no interest in dismissing your views in any other manner then on their merits. Your attempt at guilt by some false, perceived association, is a very poor way to discuss topics.
Obama is lying about how his watered down health care reform will be paid for. Your views on cartoons, Limbaugh and Fox News won't change that. -
Carnivore is a he.
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Carnivore wrote: [quote=modsquad][quote=Carnivore][quote=modsquad]Well a good part of it anyway.
A good part of it can be laid at the feet of every U.S. President since WWII.
Make up your mind you said I can't go back 30 years. Now you're going back 60 or 70.
You're deliberately obfuscating. The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30. The Middle East situation in general (primarily regarding the Israel-Palestine situation) has it's roots much deeper than that. Neither began with the Carter administration.
Carnivore,
Your understanding and appreciation of history seems to be as shallow as your understanding of conservatives and republicans.
Iraq is in a part of the world that had its numerous countries and borders carved out in whims by leaders such as Winston Churchill and those who followed. A lot of of how Iraq has acted over the years towards its neighbors and the rest of the world are due to its feelings of being wronged in many ways such as borders and access to resources such as ports. The Iraq war has roots going back much further than 8 years. And I am sure the roots of the Iraq war go much deep then I understand. But 8 years, just not true. -
Does anyone disagree that any elected offical (regardless of party) should say, "You lie!" when the President of the United States speaks on Capital Hill and to the American people?
Come on! I'm a Dem but if any Dem had done that, I would have been appalled and embarrassed and would have worked to get that person out of office. -
danielle123 wrote: Does anyone disagree that any elected offical (regardless of party) should say, "You lie!" when the President of the United States speaks on Capital Hill and to the American people?
I have said a few times that it was awful (and stupid) to yell that out. I happen to think it was true, but classless and disrespectful.
Come on! I'm a Dem but if any Dem had done that, I would have been appalled and embarrassed and would have worked to get that person out of office.
The guy should have held a press conference to share his views.
On the same hand, how many people on this board felt pride when the Iraqi through the shoe at Bush? It is time to step back from the partisan sillyness and treat people who think differently then you with respect. -
pokersloper wrote: [quote=danielle123]Does anyone disagree that any elected offical (regardless of party) should say, "You lie!" when the President of the United States speaks on Capital Hill and to the American people?
I have said a few times that it was awful (and stupid) to yell that out. I happen to think it was true, but classless and disrespectful.
Come on! I'm a Dem but if any Dem had done that, I would have been appalled and embarrassed and would have worked to get that person out of office.
The guy should have held a press conference to share his views.
On the same hand, how many people on this board felt pride when the Iraqi through the shoe at Bush? It is time to step back from the partisan sillyness and treat people who think differently then you with respect.
I agree, and really nothing more than a kerfuffle. There have been some who wished to Bogart this thread with another pony show. -
Ah, the shoe guy. I think differently than him, but respect him.
http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=507623&sid=770d543bf567bf0fcb59053fe4f3c4dc
had to play this game again for old times sake:
http://www.sockandawe.com/ -
I don't understand you're mixing an elected representative's yelling, "You lie!" with an Iraqi throwing a shoe at Bush. They were both disrespectful but we only had control over one of those incidents (hint: the one in Washington).
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eggcream wrote: Our current economic troubles are not all due to President Bush.:
Some basic understand of economics and a more nuanced picture of the role of government debt over the business cycle might help here. Good government saves when times are good, and spends when times are bad. It's one thing to expand government spending temporarily during the worse recession since WWII. It was another thing to cut taxes long-term and increase long-term spending during a boom. The former is counter-cyclical, non-inflationary, and time-limited. The latter was pro-cyclical and open-ended. The decreased saving and increased spending during the last business cycle under Bush contributed to the bubble and subsequent melt-down, creating the conditions in which government has had to take on the role of consumer of last resort. What Obama said in 2006, towards the end of a period of expansion in which the budget went from surplus under Clinton to massive deficit under Bush, the exact opposite of fiscal responsibility, was pretty accurate, and not inconsistent with the emergency and extraordinary stimulus measures taken since.
Geithner: The Senate must move legislation to raise the federal debt limit beyond $12.1 trillion by mid-October, a move viewed as necessary despite protests about the record levels of red ink.
The move will highlight the nation’s record debt, which has been central to Republican attacks against Democratic congressional leaders and President Barack Obama. The year’s deficit is expected to hit a record $1.6 trillion.
Democrats in control of Congress, including then-Sen. Obama (Ill.), blasted President George W. Bush for failing to contain spending when he oversaw increased deficits and raised the debt ceiling.
“Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren,” Obama said in a 2006 floor speech that preceded a Senate vote to extend the debt limit. “America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.”
Obama later joined his Democratic colleagues in voting en bloc against raising the debt increase.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/09/business/economy/20090610-leonhardt-graphic.html -
danielle123 wrote: I don't understand you're mixing an elected representative's yelling, "You lie!" with an Iraqi throwing a shoe at Bush. They were both disrespectful but we only had control over one of those incidents (hint: the one in Washington).
I don't understand why you are talking about this all. Oh wait, yes I do. Obama is lying to the American people about how the government will pay for health care. Talking about this other stuff is probably easier for some libs.
As far as having control goes over the incidents, that is neither here nor there. -
danielle123 wrote: I don't understand you're mixing an elected representative's yelling, "You lie!" with an Iraqi throwing a shoe at Bush. They were both disrespectful but we only had control over one of those incidents (hint: the one in Washington).
You raise a good point Danielle. People's feathers are ruffled over Wilson yelling at Obama yet gleeful over the shoe throwing. They raise the issue of "respect for the office of the Presidency". Where was that concern for respect when Bush was ducking not one but 2 shoes? -
modsquad wrote: [quote=danielle123]I don't understand you're mixing an elected representative's yelling, "You lie!" with an Iraqi throwing a shoe at Bush. They were both disrespectful but we only had control over one of those incidents (hint: the one in Washington).
You raise a good point Danielle. People's feathers are ruffled over Wilson yelling at Obama yet gleeful over the shoe throwing. They raise the issue of "respect for the office of the Presidency". Where was that concern for respect when Bush was ducking not one but 2 shoes?
Somehow you don't see the difference between respect for the President from the elected representatives of his own country and respect for the President from a person whose country he decided to invade and occupy? -
modsquad wrote: [quote=danielle123]I don't understand you're mixing an elected representative's yelling, "You lie!" with an Iraqi throwing a shoe at Bush. They were both disrespectful but we only had control over one of those incidents (hint: the one in Washington).
You raise a good point Danielle. People's feathers are ruffled over Wilson yelling at Obama yet gleeful over the shoe throwing. They raise the issue of "respect for the office of the Presidency". Where was that concern for respect when Bush was ducking not one but 2 shoes?
Modsquad,
You bring up great points. I doubt very much that most libs will change their mind on the issue. They will find excuses to convince themselves that disrespecting a republican president is okay, but disrespecting a democratic president is rude. It is a shame that some libs don't support treating all presidents with respect. My gut on the matter is that some libs probably think, "My views are moral, his are immoral, so being rude is okay."
That is what is great about folks like McCain and T. Kennedy, they realized that discussing issues begins with respecting others, not dismissing those with different ideas. -
pokersloper wrote: Modsquad,
The difference is who is disrespecting the President. In one case, it's an elected representative in the U.S.
You bring up great points. I doubt very much that most libs will change their mind on the issue. They will find excuses to convince themselves that disrespecting a republican president is okay, but disrespecting a democratic president is rude. It is a shame that some libs don't support treating all presidents with respect. My gut on the matter is that some libs probably think, "My views are moral, his are immoral, so being rude is okay."
That is what is great about folks like McCain and T. Kennedy, they realized that discussing issues begins with respecting others, not dismissing those with different ideas.
In the other case it's a person in a country that President invaded and occupied.
Not comparable at all. :roll: -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=pokersloper]Modsquad,
The difference is who is disrespecting the President. In one case, it's an elected representative in the U.S.
You bring up great points. I doubt very much that most libs will change their mind on the issue. They will find excuses to convince themselves that disrespecting a republican president is okay, but disrespecting a democratic president is rude. It is a shame that some libs don't support treating all presidents with respect. My gut on the matter is that some libs probably think, "My views are moral, his are immoral, so being rude is okay."
That is what is great about folks like McCain and T. Kennedy, they realized that discussing issues begins with respecting others, not dismissing those with different ideas.
In the other case it's a person in a country that President invaded and occupied.
Not comparable at all. :roll:
Yeah Mod, don't you get it? When our guy is disrespected, the office of the presidency has been violated, when the other team's president is disrespected, well, that is okay, because, uh, er, um, well, they think differently and should be treated differently. Yeah, that's the ticket says some libs.
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:roll:
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Carnivore wrote: :roll:
Not really interested in the shoe thrower and his motivation. The response by a lot of Americans indicated that it was OK to Dis Bush. That's the point. -
I question the assumption that anyone deserves respect as a result of the position they occupy.
Not to sound trite, but respect is earned.
...with some folks, you'll never be able to earn said respect.
Which means you either tolerate people mocking you, or use authority to exclude them.
What was the movie that asked whether the crime boss would rather be feared or respected?
...he answered "fear, it lasts longer".
That either political party has more integrity than the other is laughable. You just vote for the one who seems to be needed at the moment. -
modsquad wrote: [quote=Carnivore]:roll:
Not really interested in the shoe thrower and his motivation. The response by a lot of Americans indicated that it was OK to Dis Bush. That's the point.
That's an oversimplification, and it's exactly the kind of mischaracterization of the views of people you disagree with that you were accusing me of earlier. If another country invaded and occupied the U.S., I'm pretty sure Americans of all political stripes wouldn't be showing respect to the leader of the country that did it. I don't think it's unreasonable to show sympathy for someone who had this happen to them, especially among those of us who were against attacking his country to begin with. -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=modsquad][quote=Carnivore]:roll:
Not really interested in the shoe thrower and his motivation. The response by a lot of Americans indicated that it was OK to Dis Bush. That's the point.
That's an oversimplification, and it's exactly the kind of mischaracterization of the views of people you disagree with that you were accusing me of earlier. If another country invaded and occupied the U.S., I'm pretty sure Americans of all political stripes wouldn't be showing respect to the leader of the country that did it. I don't think it's unreasonable to show sympathy for someone who had this happen to them, especially among those of us who were against attacking his country to begin with.
I repeat, I am not interested in what other people do in their countries. They are entitled to throw shoes, kitchen sinks whatever. The POINT is how Americans react to such an incident. People get all hot and bothered when some clown yells at Obama but when Bush gets SHIT thrown at him they invent internet games mimicking the incident. I think this thread was started because Danielle expected a mutual condemnation of Wilson as is typical of most of the threads on Brooklynian these days. You Bogarted this thread for two reasons. You have an agenda that is bigger then Joe Wilson and you are the "straw that stirs this drink" It is to bad the drink is Kool-Aid. That is my only point. I don't give a shit who is against or for the war! -
I revel in watching the desperate tactics of those not in power.
...last year, the Dems desperately held pathetic whiney demonstrations and posters.
this year the repubs are in the role. -
Carnivore were you for the taking by Iran of the Americans as hostages? By your rules we can dispense with Rules of Order or whatever you call them if we disagree with someone.
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modsquad wrote: I repeat, I am not interested in what other people do in their countries. They are entitled to throw shoes, kitchen sinks whatever. The POINT is how Americans react to such an incident. People get all hot and bothered when some clown yells at Obama but when Bush gets SHIT thrown at him they invent internet games mimicking the incident. I think this thread was started because Danielle expected a mutual condemnation of Wilson as is typical of most of the threads on Brooklynian these days. You Bogarted this thread for two reasons. You have an agenda that is bigger then Joe Wilson and you are the "straw that stirs this drink" It is to bad the drink is Kool-Aid. That is my only point. I don't give a shit who is against or for the war!
That may be your point, but the point is that the "clown" yelling at Obama is an elected representative, while the shoe-thrower is not. Americans don't expect someone from a country we invaded and occupied to be respectful of our President, but we do expect it from our elected representatives.
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