Should infants/children be allowed in bars?

independent mind wrote:
But people do tolerate it, thus its no 'controversy', they're just letting you know it's irritating. Deal. You are not going to argue your way out of people finding your desire to share your noisy festival of child-rearing irritating.

That doesn't mean they think you're a bad parent, just a slightly ill-mannered one.

But in reality, as opposed to what people bitch about in the Lounge, I have not experienced a complaint, a question of my judgment or politeness or decorum regarding bringing in a child, not so much as a raised eyebrow, in any of our neighborhood bars. Quite the opposite, in fact. If you let me know in person that the behavior of my child is irritating you, then fair enough, and if I haven't taken steps to minimize any disruption, including leaving if necessary (we'd probably be gone anyhow before it got to that point) then that'd be ill-mannered. Until then, I'll take my actual experience in practice over your nebulous blanket anonymous accusation here.

Query 1:
If you find time with the child precious, why divide your attention between the child and your drinking friends? Yes, a child should be exposed to many different people and environments, but there are certain common sense parameters to this. A young toddler is difficult to amuse for any length of time - and conversations are difficult to maintain if a parent is distracted. Either you are the master of multi-tasking, your child is abnormally well behaved and your friends are beyond tolerant - but I have yet to see the universe aligned as such.

Query 2:
What of the other people at the bar? I have seen enough eye rolling, exasperated sighs and sotto voce comments to know that MOST toddlers at bars or "nicer" restaurants are not as welcome as you may think. Why should the onus be upon another patron to initiate what will most likely be an ugly confrontation? As independent mind stated, WHY should people have to tell you? It is not pleasant to try and enjoy a fine glass of wine and conversation OVER the reprimands, incessant whining and crying of a cranky toddler. Even worse if the parents blithely go about their drinks with nary an attempt to deal with the child. Is a confrontation in order? Absolutely - but the outcome is never pleasant because the parents invariably become defensive and arrogant. The evening is ruined whether you grind your teeth in silence or you confront the parents and grind your axe.

There are venues and times which are child appropriate - there are others which are not. Please do not confuse the silence of others as acceptance.
Do I bring my friends to Chuck E. Cheese with a few bottles of Pinot Noir and begin discussing sexual escapades, the @#$%ing Jets, etc. while we watch our children and grandchildren? Absolutely not. Is the converse appropriate? Not so much!

as for query 1, i will state that i find junior dr. j at least as interesting to talk to in a bar as the other patrons and often a good deal more charming. i am one of those "drinking friends" -- and childless (though not child-hating), if that matters to your inquiry. perhaps dr. j, jr., is an exceptional case. if she stayed home, i would see less of her, and i would miss it.

My niece Samantha (who turned 2 in August) and the gang went to my favorite haunt in London and she was the "belle of the ball" - could identify daddy beer (Heinie), mommy beer (Stella) and Dom juice (red wine). The kid had center court with the whole crowd - until 5pm when the tell tale eye rubbing and swiveling were noticed. Cleared out when the signs of crankiness started. Again - pub/restaurant in the afternoon with a social kid - worked. Out of respect for the other patrons, left when the magic was evaporating.

Flexi - right back at ya - but I think the Beave has won my heart with that last commentary!

Anastasia Beaverhausen wrote:
I don't WANT to have to watch my mouth in a bar around a kid - which I'll do

...I sit in shock as I realize I am less considerate then the Beav.

Flexi - I will make it up to you. Chuck E. Cheese with a few bottles of Pinot Noir. Cursing optional. I plan on bringing Rocco the Boxer so I too can be covering in drool.

Domino - you and me babe. You and me.
Flexi - the apocalypse be nigh.
Whynot - a slug is more considerate than you are.

whynot_31 wrote: So, I am less considerate than a slug and the Beav?

Um......truth hurts?

Anastasia Beaverhausen wrote:
I don't WANT to have to watch my mouth in a bar around a kid - which I'll do because I feel like just because you're (the general you're - not anyone specific) a shitty parent and take your kids in the midst of cursing and drinking doesn't mean I have to contribute to it. But there will be eye rolling and muttering under my breath.

Your baby does not belong in a bar. Period. It's not a healthy environment for a brain like a sponge.

If you ever meet my kid, you do not need to worry about the language -- any damage is long since done. In a bilingual household, each parent swears freely in the native language of the other, since the curses you didn't grow up with have no meaning.

Domino wrote: Query 1:
If you find time with the child precious, why divide your attention between the child and your drinking friends? Yes, a child should be exposed to many different people and environments, but there are certain common sense parameters to this. A young toddler is difficult to amuse for any length of time - and conversations are difficult to maintain if a parent is distracted. Either you are the master of multi-tasking, your child is abnormally well behaved and your friends are beyond tolerant - but I have yet to see the universe aligned as such.

That's a silly question. How do people justify having a second or third child, when it means having to divide their attention between two or three? As it happens, there are many hours a week when it's just the two of us, so the occasional social outing is well within the boundaries of common sense. In a social setting, this child at this age usually insists on the undivided attention of at least one adult, which means that as long as there are three or more adults, myself or someone I trust is fully engaged with the child, and there's no shortage of conversation.

Domino wrote:
Query 2:
What of the other people at the bar? I have seen enough eye rolling, exasperated sighs and sotto voce comments to know that MOST toddlers at bars or "nicer" restaurants are not as welcome as you may think. Why should the onus be upon another patron to initiate what will most likely be an ugly confrontation? As independent mind stated, WHY should people have to tell you? It is not pleasant to try and enjoy a fine glass of wine and conversation OVER the reprimands, incessant whining and crying of a cranky toddler.

As I've said all along: we're only at a bar by consensus. Incessant whining and crying of a cranky toddler means the toddler is not enjoying the situation, which means it's way past time we were gone. I can't speak for how other parents handle this, I can only tell you that I've never gotten anywhere near an ugly situation because I'm listening to the child and prepared to intervene or leave rapidly. Restaurant is a little more tricky than a bar, because ordering, eating, and paying doesn't necessarily match the child's timescale, but you can make it work just fine with absolutely minimal disruption to other customers so long as there's at least three adults at your table, even if the child gets cranky in the middle, e.g. by taking turns to check out the lobby, escalators, or walk the child round the block for part of the time if needed (as I did at a crowded restaurant on Friday night). I have occasionally seen initial indications of misgivings from overworked wait-staff, but nothing that wasn't rapidly neutralized by a combination of a smiling waving baby and a clearly in control parent.

Domino wrote:
Do I bring my friends to Chuck E. Cheese with a few bottles of Pinot Noir and begin discussing sexual escapades, the @#$%ing Jets, etc. while we watch our children and grandchildren? Absolutely not. Is the converse appropriate? Not so much!

I don't think most toddlers would be that interested in or fazed by Pinot Noir, sexual escapades and the @#$%ing Jets; your sense of what's appropriate here probably has to do with your own mores and how you think the parents might react. Never been to Chuck E. Cheese, but my attitude is that so long as the child is happy and safe, I don't care what people nearby are drinking or talking about.

Domino wrote: irregardless

...is not a word. Just saying.