Dutch Boy Burger Is Open

Hey here's something fun I might do today: go to About Time and actually ask the people there if FP/DB is being obstructionist on the whole Kids Day thing! Man I hate the internet sometimes. And those racist, racist dutch people...

MHA wrote: Yes dayman, go to About Time and do that....... Catwalkertexasranger -- dude/dudette, your anger is palpable -- chamomile tea can help.

Is it available at the bar? If not or if they have it and it's not free trade I am going to cause a scene and fill my diaper with warm uncontrollable anger!!!! I am kind of tired because you said there are Mia Farrow types all over the neighborhood... I walked all night looking for her or somebody that looks like her. I had a near miss when I met a drag queen up by the car wash. I think I might listen to some Moby tunes..he calms me and also makes a screaming good cup of tea. I am going to get another job and mortgage so that if anybody asks me for a 100 bucks I can hand it out like the chump change it is. I have asked all area businesses to contact me at catwalkermoneybags.com if they can't come up with their slipandslide payment. I will make up the difference or pay the whole thing in the name of racial harmony and as an act of reparations that the SA/Dutch government owes the community. I also will allow people that are committing welfare fraud to cut in front of me at the deli so that in case there is not enough cash in the register they can get theirs and I can buy my milk someplace else. I am about 2 gallons into this chamomile tea therapy thing. All I have done so far is pee every 5 minutes and my hands are shaking. When will the calming effects kick in? I hope your legalized pot idea gets some traction. MHA I may need your help on this one and if anybody sees Mia have her meet me for happy hour at FP. I would love to write more but I am making 1000 handmade Marcus Garvey puppets to give to local kids and their parents

WOW, catwetcetc. sounds like you're doing plenty to soil yourself just sitting in front of the computer. I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but it really just comes across as you being incredibly bitter. It's also not very entertaining or clever, sorry.

That aside, a rapidly developing (aka becoming gentrified) neighborhood like ours doesn't need more divisiveness. No one should apologize for their opinions, but it's hard enough trying to sort out our socioeconomic differences without having a bunch of speculation and bullshit on all sides coming into the picture. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be critical of Dutch Boy & Franklin Park. I'm also not saying that any of us is perfect, old or new neighbors. But I will encourage people to reserve some of their judgment until they've had their backs up against a wall in the same way and in the same skin.

I don't know if dayman took that walk, but I did. The folks at About Time are really good about trying to incorporate social responsibility with their business model, and I appreciate that. I do think that when you make money off of a community it's good, although not required (under capitalism esp.) to support that community.

My understanding is that Franklin Park and Dutch Boy didn't flat out refuse to donate, but they also never made good on their promise to do so. Same ends, different means. It isn't asking too much for them to donate 50 or 100 even. It's once a year, and other businesses on the block ARE doing that, if not much more. I don't think they're necessarily any more racist than the average person who has grown up in the U.S. (which tends to be moderately racist, whether we like to believe it or not), but it does kind of make them jerks.

Jerks + lousy service + medium well when i asked for medium rare = i'll just make my own burger. I can go to Blue Marble to get their delicious ice cream in a pint for not a lot more than what DB is charging for their shakes, thus making many more shakes that are not lukewarm when i consume them.

What would also help, I think, is if people could list the vendors on Franklin who DO support the community so we have somewhere to go, not just somewhere to boycott (I think boycott are questionable in their effectiveness anyways... Coke had a lot more pressure than just consumers not buying).
Fig & Lily, Brueklen Coffee House have both supported community events, as far as I know. Along with About Time, of course.

meowymeowchiko wrote: WOW, catwetcetc. sounds like you're doing plenty to soil yourself just sitting in front of the computer. I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but it really just comes across as you being incredibly bitter. It's also not very entertaining or clever, sorry.

That aside, a rapidly developing (aka becoming gentrified) neighborhood like ours doesn't need more divisiveness. No one should apologize for their opinions, but it's hard enough trying to sort out our socioeconomic differences without having a bunch of speculation and bullshit on all sides coming into the picture. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be critical of Dutch Boy & Franklin Park. I'm also not saying that any of us is perfect, old or new neighbors. But I will encourage people to reserve some of their judgment until they've had their backs up against a wall in the same way and in the same skin.

I don't know if dayman took that walk, but I did. The folks at About Time are really good about trying to incorporate social responsibility with their business model, and I appreciate that. I do think that when you make money off of a community it's good, although not required (under capitalism esp.) to support that community.

My understanding is that Franklin Park and Dutch Boy didn't flat out refuse to donate, but they also never made good on their promise to do so. Same ends, different means. It isn't asking too much for them to donate 50 or 100 even. It's once a year, and other businesses on the block ARE doing that, if not much more. I don't think they're necessarily any more racist than the average person who has grown up in the U.S. (which tends to be moderately racist, whether we like to believe it or not), but it does kind of make them jerks.

Jerks + lousy service + medium well when i asked for medium rare = i'll just make my own burger. I can go to Blue Marble to get their delicious ice cream in a pint for not a lot more than what DB is charging for their shakes, thus making many more shakes that are not lukewarm when i consume them.

What would also help, I think, is if people could list the vendors on Franklin who DO support the community so we have somewhere to go, not just somewhere to boycott (I think boycott are questionable in their effectiveness anyways... Coke had a lot more pressure than just consumers not buying).
Fig & Lily, Brueklen Coffee House have both supported community events, as far as I know. Along with About Time, of course.

First sorry for my lack of wit/humor. I found MHA post about the possible name association to a perceived strong arm Dutch government to be absurd and offensive. I also found the lack of any empathy for FP/DB or anybody else to be bold and regressive. Any business owner will tell you that if you even talk to every person who walks through your door asking for money you will be out of business shortly. And if you even gave to 1/50 of those who asked for cash you would be upside down even faster. My disgust and absolute bitterness about establishments that I feel are tearing the community apart are feelings that are hard, most of the time impossible to hide. To watch people exploit from every angle a system that was set up to provide for and protect children and families is horrible. To see businesses that sell drugs/ alcohol w/o id, allow drug dealers to stage in and around their establishment is my view is bad for the area as well as families young and old that live here. The types of goods and services that some area businesses provide are so destructive that even if they gave thousands per month they could not cancel their negative effects on the area. I find it strange that noise/litter/drugs and violence are not the main objective of any Franklin Ave improvement effort. Rather than a 2 or 3 time per year donation so that the area children can be provided with an escape, maybe a full time quality of life plan can be put in place. A great start that has worked in other areas,a clean street team. Provides a couple of jobs and keeps the area looking more like someplace you would let your child walk without stepping in blunt rollers,cigarette butts,broken glass and discarded filth of all kinds. Maybe the neighborhood assoc can build a strong foundation on a clean surface. I hope that people will have a grace period before asking new businesses to give the next time or at least recognize that they may have said yes to another 10 people before you and take a polite no for and answer. Even if you choose not to believe it 50 or 100 dollars a day for a small business can be the difference in hiring another employee or 2. MHA/ Dutch history toward blacks ?hope you were kidding also.

"To watch people exploit from every angle a system that was set up to provide for and protect children and families is horrible."

If you think the system we live under does this, you are sorely, sorely mistaken and I feel bad for you.

secondly, MHA didn't have to be kidding. http://thefastertimes.com/photolists/2009/12/09/zwarte-piet-photos-of-hollands-totally-racist-christmas-tradition/

Personally, I prefer Krampus.

i'm not saying that behavior is right. i'm just saying i don't think the system helps.

catwalkertexasreanger, do u even know who Marcus Garvey is? Do you understand why that mother is calling her child a motherfucker? Or why these brothers walk around calling each others niggers? I think if you did, you would understand my stance here, and you don't, so you CAN'T. I laugh at whitefolks like you everyday of my life.

It is my understanding the reason this area was called Crow Hill has everything to do with the Dutch who once lived here. Their pejorative for the Black people who lived around here at the time was to designate them as 'crows'; I hesitated to state this because I have not yet verified it, but if such is the case, as a person of African descent, are you telling me I ought not to take umbrage at the reminder of the Dutch's presence? I am still trying to get over the dutch name of the coffee house on Franklin avenue (breukelen) . As a person of African descent, why would you give your store a Dutch name? That's like a descendent of the horrors of Auschwitz calling their store -- I dunno -- Auschwitz! Why is it when Black people announce their gripes folk get intolerant, but when Jews do, all of you coo apologetically? I will tell you why! Because Jews have POWER and Black people do not! If you knew there was a consequence of offending me, believe me, you wouldn't do it. More power to the Jews by the way, though what they are doing to Palestine is gonna haunt them forever unfortunately.... Shalom!

I agree with everything except for the dutch usage ban. I agree that people over-fetishize the dutch for whatever unknown reason. But...

The US has done far more to sow the seeds of racism and oppression around the globe. I think if we're going to go the route of avoiding certain-oppressor-related-things we'll be hard pressed to use any english at all.

I didn't know that about Crow Hill (I knew that it was a settlement of free slaves after the war, but nothing about the etymology of its name). It really makes me want to go to the library to try to find more about it.

I also think that things divide into two when it comes to race/ethnicity. In every country/ethnic grouping, there are governments & elite classes, and there are the people who live under them. They aren't exclusive of each other, but I think it's really necessary to acknowledge the difference. Not all Jews have power and love the occupation of Palestine, just like not all black mothers with little to no income call their child a motherfucker. The generalizations can reveal the roots of things, but they don't always help us move forward with each other (this is obv just my opinion, i'm not trying to say it's gospel or anything). i know it sounds kind of corny, but i really believe that if we don't move forward together, we really aren't going to move forward enough for any of it to matter. and i don't want to be stuck with what we have, because right now, this world is shit for most of the people who live in it, and it's not ok.

dayman wrote: [quote=MHA]
I hesitated to state this because I have not yet verified it

The best kinds of statements to make!

ah, but in this instance, MHA's grasp of the term "Crow Hill" appears to be correct.

Here's a tease:
http://www.schwarzgallery.com/index.php?page=painting&modifier=detail&painting=1046

and here's the clinchers:
Read the footnote on pages 4 and 5 of this book
http://books.google.com/books?id=4bb57aBxZRMC&pg=PA4&sig=RAM4Gt6haopF37Vr8GSmvx9L_-E&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

or this "modern" 1990 confirmation by the NYT:
"Patrick Smith, spokesman for the Borough President, said the area was part of a Revolutionary War neighborhood known as Crow Hill, because it was inhabited by freed slaves. Most of it is now Crown Heights." (on page 2)

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/27/realestate/if-you-re-thinking-of-living-in-prospect-heights.html?pagewanted=2

(...damn, I should have bought a house in PH in 1990 when the neighborhood was far worse and the housing was cheap!)

Head to the City archives if you want to do a grad school paper, but thankfully our requirements here are not as stringent...

More results on the area, but perhaps less interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_Hill,_Brooklyn

http://www.c21thesharrieffgroup.com/Neighborhoods.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=crow+hill+brooklyn+history&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=56fgS6_WI8WqlAehhs3dCA&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CDsQ5wIwCg

Just b/c folks may be uncomfortable with history doesn't mean it didn't happen....

okay, i haven't read all those links ,but my understanding is that that interpretation is not settled fact.

from the brooklyn eagle, 1888

John JENNISON, a horse trader on Fulton street, who used to live near the Clove road, unravels the
mystery of the name, or at least gives the only really plausible reason for it. He says there used to
be bone factory on the hill and the name came from the large number of crows that flocked there.

my guess -- and this is a guess only, with no additional references to cite -- is that the name stuck because of BOTH suggested etymologies. some people saw real crows and thought the name made sense; others saw black people and thought the name made sense/was funny or apt.

as the proposed slur holds no venom in modern parlance (unless i've fallen behind in my slur-collecting), i like the name. it has a much nicer sound than crown heights, which is awfully royalist for a democratic nation, no? besides, just being named for a street is dullsville.

if we're going to talk offensive names in these parts, i'd start with underhill, named for a noted indian-killer, if memory serves.

despite its dissatisfying refusal to settle the name issue for us, i do thank that eagle article for this line, a lesson this board could benefit from, i believe:

It is only possible to give these divisions in a
general way, as the "oldest inhabitants" do not agree in laying out the boundaries, and it is a question
if the lines were ever very decidedly fixed.

Hey Ishtar, let's play nice, cool? If not then I too can say coyily insulting things. No need for disrespect here. Anger yes, disrespect no. I mean, why go there? Seriously. "Conflict is inevitable; how you handle it is not.

THE KIDS STARTED PETITIONING THIS PAST WEEKEND! YEAHHHH!! http://abouttimeboutique.blogspot.com/2010/05/its-rally-time-kids.html Go Kids Day Event!

Note: this was in response to a screed that has now been deleted.

In fairness, doesn't Franklin Park/Dutch Boy "give back" to the community by providing an inclusive, sustainable business in the area? It's pretty much the only non-de facto segregated bar in the area and they're keeping not one but two store fronts in the neighborhood occupied and presentable that would otherwise be vacant. I know giving to the event would be great and all, but I'm not about to say they hate or do not support the community.

And yes, MHA, I take it back. I take it all back.