Getting spat at because of who i am
Comments
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It's like the great quote by Ann Richards delivered at the Democratic Convention a few years back: "George Bush was born on third base and thinks he hit a home run" or something to that effect.
Yet, it's stlil hard to convince poor George that he hasn't had a difficult life and the all of his struggles with booze and drugs don't amount to anything.
Sure, I agree we iive in a racist society, just stand on the corner of 7th Avenue and Carroll street and see how many Black people are walking around. Then try that again on Nostrand and Park and count the number of white folks. Then reflect on which n'hood is poor. Is the just bad luck at work?
Nonetheless, while an aware person is in touch with the fact that white folks are the beneficiaries of a lot of history and owe much of their "success" to that history, the question becomes: so what?
Giving Black folks, or any folks, something as a "gift" in my experience is not the answer. They only resent the giver and end up feeling worse than before they got the gift. How then do we address the history of racism and the chasm it has created between whites and people of color?
My only suggestion is discussions like this, where people of all races start to get in touch with the honest feelings of the other side. The fact that MHA was passed over for a promotion because his views were too "painful" suggests to me that the prevailing culture of this employer still hadn't engaged in that process. -
I am gonna go out on the 'reach-out-and-touch-somebody's-hand' limb here and say something conciliatory: I cannot deny anyone's version of reality. Something Cool the Kid said about me earlier (in error) resonated with me, and that is if there are views out there not concurrent with mine, then they cannot be 'true'. That's not the viewpoint I want to express. Buddhist thought teaches that there are many truths. There is your truth, and there is my truth. I don't want to negate anyone's version of the world, but rather, to include mine own as you negotiate reality; believe it or not, I too look for an augmenting of how I see the world as well.
Saying that, I don't think that anyone owes Black people anything. I am not a proponent for 'reparations' in any form; redress, maybe, but not reparations. I don't think that the chasm can be filled, quite frankly. It can only be forgotten, and I sure as heck ain't gonna forget. Captain Planet admits to the existence of white folk benefitting, and then says, 'so what?'. I would augment that response with a exclamation mark: so what?! (sigh). To take a line from a wonderful wonderful miniseries, "Let all the poisonous toads in the bog, hatch out! Hatch out!" Claudius the king foretold of the demise of the Roman empire and also of the need to write a tell all. The presence of Black people in this country in all the permutations they assume -- Booji best friend to whitefolk, sullen spitters on sidewalks, angry fist wavers like me, the depressed, the insane, et. al -- are all manifestations of the history of enslavement and the dysfunctional psyche of the whiteman, plain and simple. There will sadly, no doubt be a final solution to this mess, whether we like it or not. -
MHA wrote: Outside Child, thank you! I love the song. I was up dancing!
(Sigh) Hamilton, regarding the difference in salary between myself and my younger, whiter peer, I was told that she was considered more likely to garner respect by those in the company therefore that warranted her making more than me, and becoming my supervisor -- despite that I had to teach her everything she knew; I don't know if the people you refer to as 'black egyptians' came in any OTHER color, and if the pyramids are in Africa, then it stands to reason AFRICANS BUILT THEM. Oh, by the way, there are also Pyramids in Ethiopia, as well as all over where we call Meso-America; in fact there are pyramids in Mexico, and also found amongst ancient ruins are the Olmec heads which are Africoid in appearance. All of this is thoroughly documented in Ivan Van Sertima's 'They Came Before Columbus'. Hamilton -- pardon me, but I believe I DID respond to your question about them, it's not my fault if you can't read between the lines; regarding your joke, our ideological dissonance is made clear by your inability to see why I don't find it funny, and my own inability to appreciate your humor. You see, you might not be aware of this, but you have a perception of Black people obviously the result of your very topical relationship with them. And I say this even if you too happen to be Black, or even if your are in an intimate relationship with a Black person. No one aware of Black people would make a comment like that, or would understand the nuance between Cool the Kid's branding of my words as 'eloquent yet misdirected' and Milayo's characterization of it as 'eloquent, angry and poignant'. And it's weird that you ignore everything she said, and only use her description of my discourse as an attempt to find contradiciton in my point of view; Interesting.
Whitefolks, I tellya....
Thanks for responding,
on your mach 2nd posting you stated,
" i worked in a profession where my accomplishments were muted and exploited by WHITE folks who where allowed to claim credit for my endeavors . a coworker and peer made at least 15 grand more then i did because she was a WHITE woman who SOCIETY would not allow to make what i did '
on your response, you finally admitted her salary was greater then yours, due to the fact she was your boss and it was explained to you she was promoted to the position, as she was more suitable for the job,
I guess management felt you didn't have what it takes to manage people.
i wonder why.
I want to thank you for the world wide pyramid tour , i was wondering if i qualify for frequent flyer miles.
all i asked was a simple question,were the builders of pyramids in egypt black.
the reason i asked, was a jewish friend made a statement that the jews were enslaved by the egyptians for hundreds of years, is he right and if so how does that sit with you..
and last but not least , i am white , have black friends,worked with blacks and managed blacks and never had a problem with any of them.
you should get a grip, as your rants are starting to sound like colin ferguson's -
MHA I will honestly look to engage you without being inflammatory or engaging in hyperbole.
I too will read the article.
But I want to know- why do you think it's not possible for blacks to ever reconcile with America? Don't you feel that taking such a stance will be counterproductive? I don't want to claim you are harboring anger- but if we are never able to reconcile we will never be able to move forward. And to me looking ahead is more important than looking back, which really is the fundamental reason I disagree with you.
Is America's history with blacks ugly? Yes. Are things perfect? There are millions of failures that continue to hold black people back that we as a people have little to no control over. The gov't has failed many of us (and the rest of its collective poor). But my whole thing is, if we are gonna be angry we have to be angry with the people who are directly responsible- white hipsters in Bedstuy had no part in the scandal at the 81st precinct- the thread starter has no part in the shitty local schools here.
So to me, to even bother to try to rationalize why someone would spit at him makes no sense. Regardless of whatever history there may be, the spitter and the spittee are members of the same community and owe each other some common respect which the spitter did not show. Those kinds of basic problems of respect and taking pride & ownership in one's community (as you mentioned before with the anecdote about the building super) seem to be more direct problems affecting the black community, and those are things that we ourselves have to work on. Is it important to determine the cause of these behaviors and our collective condition? Of course... but that is not the determining component that will enable us to begin to move forward, in my opinion. -
Cool The Kid wrote: why do you think it's not possible for blacks to ever reconcile with America?
Interesting phrasing. -
Hamilton wrote: [the reason i asked, was a jewish friend made a statement that the jews were enslaved by the egyptians for hundreds of years, is he right and if so how does that sit with you..
Why should it sit anywhere? There is belief and some evidence that there were also black Hebrews during that time. -
Ishtar wrote: [quote=Hamilton][the reason i asked, was a jewish friend made a statement that the jews were enslaved by the egyptians for hundreds of years, is he right and if so how does that sit with you..
Why should it sit anywhere? There is belief and some evidence that there were also black Hebrews during that time.
Is there really a reason to go back to the time of the Egyptians with this conversation? Can't we find enough things to discuss RE: slavery in America, since -say- 1600? ...is an idepth debate re: the Egyptians really necessary before we resume conversing? -
Ishtar wrote: [quote=Hamilton][the reason i asked, was a jewish friend made a statement that the jews were enslaved by the egyptians for hundreds of years, is he right and if so how does that sit with you..
Why should it sit anywhere? There is belief and some evidence that there were also black Hebrews during that time.
the question was about jews being enslaved, not if there were black hebrews. was my friend right or was his statement in error. -
Cool The Kid wrote: MHA I will honestly look to engage you without being inflammatory or engaging in hyperbole.
Wonderful thing to read; to point out.
I too will read the article.
But I want to know- why do you think it's not possible for blacks to ever reconcile with America? Don't you feel that taking such a stance will be counterproductive? I don't want to claim you are harboring anger- but if we are never able to reconcile we will never be able to move forward. And to me looking ahead is more important than looking back, which really is the fundamental reason I disagree with you.
Is America's history with blacks ugly? Yes. Are things perfect? There are millions of failures that continue to hold black people back that we as a people have little to no control over. The gov't has failed many of us (and the rest of its collective poor). But my whole thing is, if we are gonna be angry we have to be angry with the people who are directly responsible- white hipsters in Bedstuy had no part in the scandal at the 81st precinct- the thread starter has no part in the shitty local schools here.
So to me, to even bother to try to rationalize why someone would spit at him makes no sense. Regardless of whatever history there may be, the spitter and the spittee are members of the same community and owe each other some common respect which the spitter did not show. Those kinds of basic problems of respect and taking pride & ownership in one's community (as you mentioned before with the anecdote about the building super) seem to be more direct problems affecting the black community, and those are things that we ourselves have to work on. Is it important to determine the cause of these behaviors and our collective condition? Of course... but that is not the determining component that will enable us to begin to move forward, in my opinion.
Sadly, I suspect that MHA will not be able to wrap his head around your comments.
We need to speak plain talk here. Some people will never let go of the rage. They are comfortable with that rage and they feel best soaking in it. I have seen endless MHA's. They die with that rage. I have seen it in Jews of my fathers generation, in Irish Catholics like my wife. This rage knows no race. The Nazis tried to wipe us out in WW2 and yet my neighbor is German. h did nothing wrong and he is not to blame.
JFK said that we can all learn to live together or we can learn to die together. I believe he know of what he spoke. -
Ishtar wrote: [quote=Cool The Kid]why do you think it's not possible for blacks to ever reconcile with America?
Interesting phrasing.
Why?
Also again not to inflame but MHA I 'take issue' with this quote:The presence of Black people in this country in all the permutations they assume -- Booji best friend to whitefolk, sullen spitters on sidewalks, angry fist wavers like me, the depressed, the insane, et. al -- are all manifestations of the history of enslavement and the dysfunctional psyche of the whiteman, plain and simple.
Again you remove ALL responsibility from black people's current status away from them and place them squarely on 'the whiteman'. To me it makes no sense to take such a passive role- especially when the people you hold responsible for your own status in the world stay in control. It leads back to my original point- nobody is gonna swoop in and save us, so if we continue to wait for I don't know what then things will only continue to get worse.
A simple question- how do you think all parties involved (just within CH) should contribute to make CH better? Specifically the poor blacks, the gentrifiers, the police and the municipal gov't? To complain so bitterly without some kind of solution to offer just seems to be an exercise in perpetuating misery. -
whynot_31 wrote: [quote=Ishtar][quote=Hamilton][the reason i asked, was a jewish friend made a statement that the jews were enslaved by the egyptians for hundreds of years, is he right and if so how does that sit with you..
Why should it sit anywhere? There is belief and some evidence that there were also black Hebrews during that time.
Is there really a reason to go back to the time of the Egyptians with this conversation? Can't we find enough things to discuss RE: slavery in America, since -say- 1600? ...is an idepth debate re: the Egyptians really necessary before we resume conversing?
Not it's not and you actually bring up a an important point in this discussion. -
I don't know why some of you are putting the word "rage" on MHA, personally I am not picking up rage from him, more like awareness and dissatisfaction with the disparities that still exist to this day
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Outside Child wrote: I don't know why some of you are putting the word "rage" on MHA, personally I am not picking up rage from him, more like awareness and dissatisfaction with the disparities that still exist to this day
This is why many blacks I know were taught not to engage in these types of discussions with "outsiders". You come across as "angry", "bitter", and ready to "blame" others for your problems. The teaching is not explicit, but it was definitely part of the socialization we experienced growing up. I guess it was from watching how the adults in our lives filtered themselves around non-blacks. -
Outside Child wrote: I don't know why some of you are putting the word "rage" on MHA, personally I am not picking up rage from him, more like awareness and dissatisfaction with the disparities that still exist to this day
I don't know that I would call gross generalizations and the absolution of responsibility from a whole race of people awareness.
Reading the article... -
Ishtar wrote: [quote=Outside Child]I don't know why some of you are putting the word "rage" on MHA, personally I am not picking up rage from him, more like awareness and dissatisfaction with the disparities that still exist to this day
This is why many blacks I know were taught not to engage in these types of discussions with "outsiders". You come across as "angry", "bitter", and ready to "blame" others for your problems. The teaching is not explicit, but it was definitely part of the socialization we experienced growing up. I guess it was from watching how the adults in our lives filtered themselves around non-blacks.
many cultures (including that of the police, military, etc) "do this" out of the belief that the person outside of the culture will not get it. ...they believe they will be judged -and dismissed- long before they have time to fully express why they feel as they do.
Many times they are correct.
However, by closing out those who "do not understand" they run the risk of never being understood.
The culture of the Marine Corps especially comes to mind: Out of fear of being judged as "baby killers" and the like, many career Marines choose to not talk with outsiders about their work. While serving as a good short term coping mechanism, it can be very bad for ones long term mental health. Basically, -when taken to the extreme- it means that you will never be able to leave your culture. Needless to say, when the Marine is forced to "move off base" many them end up spending way too much time drinking at the VFW.....
My analogy isn't a perfect match, but it works well enough....
Insert "minority" whenever you see "marine corps"
Insert "lazy or angry" whenever you see "baby killers"
insert "leave the ghetto" where you see "move off base"
insert "end up in prison" where you see "spend too much time drinking at the VFW"
See the relevance? -
Cool The Kid wrote: [quote=Outside Child]I don't know why some of you are putting the word "rage" on MHA, personally I am not picking up rage from him, more like awareness and dissatisfaction with the disparities that still exist to this day
I don't know that I would call gross generalizations and the absolution of responsibility from a whole race of people awareness.
Reading the article...
With all due respect, I think you are over exaggerating a lot and also putting your own generalizations on this guy. -
whynot_31 wrote:
Well understanding is a 2 way street and people have to be willing to try to understand ;-)
However, by closing out those who "do not understand" they run the risk of never being understood. -
Outside Child wrote: [quote=whynot_31]
Well understanding is a 2 way street and people have to be willing to try to understand ;-)
However, by closing out those who "do not understand" they run the risk of never being understood.
please see expansion of my post. -
whynot_31 wrote: [quote=Outside Child][quote=whynot_31]
Well understanding is a 2 way street and people have to be willing to try to understand ;-)
However, by closing out those who "do not understand" they run the risk of never being understood.
please see expansion of my post.
OK cool but what I am observing here is this brother is trying to express himself and is getting automatically labelled and dismissed which is frustrating for me to just watch so I can only imagine how he feels! This does not facilitate open communication at all
A person would feel like why even bother for the next time
As for prison, actually people end up there a lot easier staying in the hood than when they leave the hood! Good analogy none the less -
true, I could changed "ghetto" to "apartment". Merely leaving the "apartment" puts one at increased risk of prison.
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whynot_31 wrote: true, I could changed "ghetto" to "apartment". Merely leaving the "apartment" puts one at increased risk of prison.
especially these days! -
Hamilton wrote:
You apparently never supervised MHA.
and last but not least , i am white , have black friends,worked with blacks and managed blacks and never had a problem with any of them.
And you apparently were never supervised by a Black person. Just lucky I guess, right. :P -
Outside Child wrote: [quote=Cool The Kid][quote=Outside Child]I don't know why some of you are putting the word "rage" on MHA, personally I am not picking up rage from him, more like awareness and dissatisfaction with the disparities that still exist to this day
I don't know that I would call gross generalizations and the absolution of responsibility from a whole race of people awareness.
Reading the article...
With all due respect, I think you are over exaggerating a lot and also putting your own generalizations on this guy.
I'm not exaggerating or generalizing anything. MHA finds fault in white people even trying to coexist with black people in the same neighborhoodI wouldn't change my color for the world, but in this world, the psychic damage wrought by 'you guys' intentionally and unintentionally can be such a burden, and what has been the remaining solace for many black people is their HOME, and now here 'YOU' come.
assumes all black people look through the same 'race issues first' lens he doesRace imbues the experiences of Black people, and if you ignore that element, then you are intentionally not understanding the story, and choosing to filter out context.
Grossly generalizingThese whitefolks just don't get it.
Assuming that 1, telling him to look at himself and others as just people = robbing him of his identity AND assuming ALL white people think this wayThey even told me I should not see myself as a Black man; I am a just a person. Can you believe it? They go all over the world proclaiming their whiteness and now they want to tell me I am just a person -- DEVOID OF A HISTORICAL PAST! A negro essentially. They don't even understand their attempts at cultural and racial imperialism even as they express it.
I already explained all this in a prior post MHA didn't address (though he claims I don't address his claims directly). He wants to stereotype and generalize whites but would be incensed if he caught wind of a white person even attempting to generalize him. He hates the state of the black community and holds 'the whiteman' responsible but offers no kinds of ideas on how to resolve our issues, and even implies he doesn't WANT things to be solvedThere will sadly, no doubt be a final solution to this mess, whether we like it or not.
I would HOPE there would be some kind of final solution that would enable blacks to never forget the history, but finally let go... there are so many opportunities for us, but ppl like MHA only look at all the negative. I couldn't imagine getting anything done if I were just consumed by anger and completely stuck on the past. AGAIN... not saying to FORGET, just not to let history hamper yourself. -
OK Cool the Kid, you said 1st generation would that be West Indian?
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capt planet.
supervising MHA, are you trying to scare me.
i hate to disappoint you but, i had been supervised by an african american woman.
fortunately she survived . -
Outside Child, once again, thank you. Here is an example of what I am saying. I make a point, and what I say isn't given any credence. I make a point and the response is, 'Wow, he has all of this RAGE'. It is an interesting sidelining of the points made. So there is no real response, simply an adjudgment that I have all of this rage. Cool the Kid seems to think that history is to be forgotten. But the common strife all around us in all parts of the world prove him and others wrong: Rwanda, Eritrea, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and yes -- Crown Heights. It is disinegenuous to simply say, 'Forget the past'. I guarantee you wherever Cool the Kid's family comes from also has some remnant of history haunting them. I am sure their move to Queens (I believe) was not the result of simply liking the neighborhood, but rather to escape the horrors of history.
The irony is that EVERYONE wants Black people to forget their history. Yet no one tells the Japanese who were interned in camps in this country to forget their history, nor the surviving Japanese who were witness to the horrors of Hiroshima, nor the Afghanistan people who fought against Attila the Hun, the Persians, the Soviet Russians, and now the Americans, nor the Pakistani who fought against the British, the Hindi, the Indus, the Muslim, nor the Jews recent pogrom in Germany nor the pogroms they endured in all areas of Eastern and Western Europe. History surrounds us and imbues our lives whether we know it or not. Just because those ignorant to history (or cannily aware of it) are not aware of the inextricable link between them in the here and now, and those now gone, that does not mean it isn't relevant. The point I am trying to make is that the angry Black masses you think ought not to be angry ARE, and they are NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
Here I am making valid points, and what does Hamilton say? He says I am beginning to sound like Colin Ferguson -- the guy who killed all of those people on the Long Island Railroad a few years back. So he links my sentiment with a killer... Mr. Ferguson was certifiably crazy by the way, but the court in which he was tried REFUSED to seem as such, so his incarceration could occur criminally, and that the consequence of his actions could be meted under the most severest remedy that the law could provide. Only after his incarceration was he housed in a mental facility for an indefinite amount of time; essentially forever; you see how messed up the whiteman is? So I will say this to you: If Colin Ferguson was a white man this would never happen, but because he is Black, it did. He is obviously insane, yet the State of New York refused to see him this way. That's fucked up, and this refusal is testament to how white people in this country feel about Black people. They refuse to be accepting of the trials and tribulations associated with Blackness. Even when those trials and tribulations drives one crazy.
Regarding the Jewish relationship to the pyramids, there is a great deal to say about this, and frankly I have to be honest with you: I am afraid to say it. Hamilton you asked me if Black people built the pyramids, and I said yes, they did, and then you mentioned the Jews enslavement in that region of the world, and I don't know if you say this to refute the notion that Black people built the pyramids but Jews did. Someone raised the point that well, there are Black Jews, or rather, Jews who we would use the word 'Black' to define them, and to that I would say yes, they are.
Regarding Park Place's mention of the horrors afflicting his(?) Jewish ancestors and the irony of now living beside German descendant neighbors I will say what Captain Planet said: So what? My issue is not white people living in Crown Heights - as CTK alleges -- my issue is with people acting as if the indignities they suffer (i.e. spitting) and the indignities Black people are subjected to by their own hands and the hands of others -- happens in a vacum. If your German neighbor did or said things that insulted your culture Park Place, believe me, you would be pissed. If for instance, after the upteenth reminder of the Jewish Holocaust was advertised by yet ANOTHER movie trumpeting the pain they endured, and you heard your German neighbor proclaim 'Shizer! Another movie about the suffering Jews?!' -- you would be pissed. You would have the expectation that EVERYONE Jew/non-Jew would give the history tirals and tribulations of the Jewish people their constant due. The 'rage' you mention that the Irish have, that the Jews have, ought that to be forgotten? It is your ignorance or indifference to the sufferings of African peoples in America that makes you not care about 'Us', or to proclaim essentially the same thing: 'Enough already'. The side irony is that an African (CTK) is saying this, and he has no idea what he is saying because as he has readily admitted, he doesn't have the African diasporic experience. Then why the hell is he even saying anything? Here he is proclaiming his Blackness (and his historical IGNORANCE about New World Black People) yet he is using it as a tool to try to devalue the notion of Black pain. I have few words for a person like this: Were he Jewish and doing the same thing Alan Dershowitz (I likely mispelled that) would call him a 'self hating Jew'; I think I can confidently make the same claim. CTK -- you need to read your history and connect with your brothers and sisters in the Diaspora, and stop using your African heritage as a means of demeaning the experience of New World Black people whose history you are obviously ignorant of. A Jew -- whether secular or observant would not tolerate your nonsense, and I don't think I should grant you any tolerance myself.
The Struggle Continues. -
Two friendly requests:
CTK, please stop using the term "final solution" unless you are intending it to mean how Hitler used it. ...many readers define that term exclusively as such, and you should be aware.
MHA, did I miss something? Where were you compared to Colin Ferguson? Surely you can find a better victim of our justice system. -
whynot, he's referring to this from earlier this afternoon, on the prior page:
Hamilton wrote: you should get a grip, as your rants are starting to sound like colin ferguson's
http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=686493#686493
Godwin would definitely be impressed.
:roll:
*smacks forehead -
Cool The Kid wrote: [quote=Outside Child][quote=Cool The Kid][quote=Outside Child]I don't know why some of you are putting the word "rage" on MHA, personally I am not picking up rage from him, more like awareness and dissatisfaction with the disparities that still exist to this day
I don't know that I would call gross generalizations and the absolution of responsibility from a whole race of people awareness.
Reading the article...
With all due respect, I think you are over exaggerating a lot and also putting your own generalizations on this guy.
I'm not exaggerating or generalizing anything. MHA finds fault in white people even trying to coexist with black people in the same neighborhoodI wouldn't change my color for the world, but in this world, the psychic damage wrought by 'you guys' intentionally and unintentionally can be such a burden, and what has been the remaining solace for many black people is their HOME, and now here 'YOU' come.
assumes all black people look through the same 'race issues first' lens he doesRace imbues the experiences of Black people, and if you ignore that element, then you are intentionally not understanding the story, and choosing to filter out context.
Grossly generalizingThese whitefolks just don't get it.
Assuming that 1, telling him to look at himself and others as just people = robbing him of his identity AND assuming ALL white people think this wayThey even told me I should not see myself as a Black man; I am a just a person. Can you believe it? They go all over the world proclaiming their whiteness and now they want to tell me I am just a person -- DEVOID OF A HISTORICAL PAST! A negro essentially. They don't even understand their attempts at cultural and racial imperialism even as they express it.
I already explained all this in a prior post MHA didn't address (though he claims I don't address his claims directly). He wants to stereotype and generalize whites but would be incensed if he caught wind of a white person even attempting to generalize him. He hates the state of the black community and holds 'the whiteman' responsible but offers no kinds of ideas on how to resolve our issues, and even implies he doesn't WANT things to be solvedThere will sadly, no doubt be a final solution to this mess, whether we like it or not.
I would HOPE there would be some kind of final solution that would enable blacks to never forget the history, but finally let go... there are so many opportunities for us, but ppl like MHA only look at all the negative. I couldn't imagine getting anything done if I were just consumed by anger and completely stuck on the past. AGAIN... not saying to FORGET, just not to let history hamper yourself.
I know I'm coming in late to this, but I've had exchanges with MHA before on another post (the one about Jane Jacobs), and stopped b/c I thought he was projecting his own bigotry, and that it was a waste of my time to continue debating with him.
Specifically, in his first post on that other thread, he made a number of statements about how white residents who moved into Crown Heights should stay where we belong (I'm paraphrasing him here, but you can find my post as well). When I called him out on that, including quotes of his where he stated that white residents should stay in Park Slope where we belong, he responded by saying that it was a just a joke, before continuing on to argue his case... that white people needed to stay out of Crown Heights (ostensibly to stay where we belong). Somewhere buried in his second response (and as I'm sure you've noticed, he like his manifestos), he argued that calling him out for his own prejudices was just a typical white response. Evidently, for MHA, the only correct response for a white resident like myself is to completely agree with him and move out because I and other white residents don't "belong here."
I've since seen other posts he's made where he's compared white residents in Crown Heights to Christopher Columbus and his pillage and murder of the Native Americans. Seems a bit excessive to me, but hey, I'm only one man.
I'm only adding this now for both CtK and BC because there's a clear history with MHA of hypocrisy and prejudice on his own part, which he globally projects on white residents, living in Crown Heights.
I don't expect perfection - Lord knows, I'm not. And we've all grown up in the same screwed up and mostly segregated society that because of a reverse white flight back into the city (AKA gentrification) over the last 15-20 years now has white, middle-class people moving into what were until recently primarily black, working-class neighborhoods. So it's no surprise that there are tensions as a result (and which are understandable, given the history), but I don't think we should pretend MHA is something that he's not either. -
pwaltman,
The conversations on these boards can be a bit overwhelming and/or disturbing to folks that have just joined (or lurked for a while, and finally decided to weigh in).
Ideally after the initial predictable missteps (of people of all walks, btw), most people settle in to more thoughtful, civil dialogue, which is how I'd generally describe most recent conversation in this thread.
Most of it anyway.
Anyhow, remember that sometimes folks new to commenting here often need a little time to find their brooklynian feet. (ha)
In the end, we're definitely better served by giving everybody a few mulligans.
Howdy, Stranger!
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