Getting spat at because of who i am

Outside Child wrote: CTK, honestly I have experienced the purse clutching type of thing several times as I said and trust when I tell you that there is no way anyone even by the farthest stretch of the imagination could say I look "scary" or "threatening"! So it does happen every day although like I said it can often be subtle. As for the video guy I do believe he was being extra animated to make the point! However, in those situations I would be lying if I told you I don't think the same exact thing!

I do not live in Crown Heights, I live in Bed Stuy but it is the same thing more or less. Personally, I walk around aware of my surroundings but not freaked out and paranoid! The biggest concern I really have is something "popping off" and catching a stray more than someone attacking me. Now as for neighborly, there are quite a few white people around here and many have lived here several months or even a few years. In many cases, they never said hello to any of us nor introduced themselves nor attended any block parties or anything. BUT now something happens like a shooting and now all of a sudden they want to run up and be your best friend to find out what happened! This has been discussed amongst my neighbors and everyone pretty much feels the same way; so all those months and years you could never say hi or good morning or even act like we exist but now all of a sudden you want to be best friends? Well you should have thought about that before so go find out what happened online!

There is no hate, no spitting, not even really any animosity. If the people had just been friendly and polite like how the block is from the beginning it would have been different! When I first came on this block, people were SOOOOO friendly and nice to me by the second day I was having drinks on the stoop with them and BBQing. That is just how it is here it is a real community where people look out for each other and Crown Heights is the same way! People just have to check for it

I am doing my best to explain this as diplomatically as I can and in a clearly understandable way so I hope I am doing OK LOL ;-)

OK now see I totally feel you on this. This is a legit case of how gentrification can be bad. I personally made an effort to at least say hello to people on my block unless they came across as shady/not wanting to be bothered. My girlfriend didn't talk to ANYBODY. But she just didn't feel comfortable. So IDK. I think it's definitely important to have a presence on your block and kind of get aligned with the right people even if it's at a superficial level. They will give you the scoop and possibly save your ass somewhere down the line.

Cool The Kid wrote:
OK now see I totally feel you on this. This is a legit case of how gentrification can be bad. I personally made an effort to at least say hello to people on my block unless they came across as shady/not wanting to be bothered. My girlfriend didn't talk to ANYBODY. But she just didn't feel comfortable. So IDK. I think it's definitely important to have a presence on your block and kind of get aligned with the right people even if it's at a superficial level. They will give you the scoop and possibly save your ass somewhere down the line.

OK, but the point I am making is neighbors should not just be spoken to to "get the scoop" or because they could potentially "save your ass" in the future! There is a lot of fun we have here that people are totally missing out on! We grow food in our gardens and share and trade it, whoever is grilling that day, everyone eats, we share drinks, we play with the kids, we tell stories, we are a community! If I short on $ one day my neighbor will slide me a 10 or buy me a beer or a bottle and I will slide it back a different day. This is how we live here so yes it is wierd to have people who don't acknowledge or talk to us!

whynot_31 wrote: CTK writes:

"I've heard stories from BLACK PEOPLE who tossed the resumes of anyone with a ghetto sounding name... 'they didn't want any problems'. Shit like that is really more of a problem IMO".

I don't think this surprises anyone. Everyone that isn't black trash, hates black trash.

Absolutely, what we are getting at is that in a city as diverse as NYC there are few reliable short cuts that ensure you are correctly determining a black person's social class correctly.

Neighborhood is completely flawed as a method
Dress is often reliable, but you have to be good at it. It's a honed skill.
Language and behavior, "how one represents" often very good.

Whether someone is hanging out on a corner, as opposed to doing something with their time, is often reliable as well.

It's not rocket science.
But, yup, let's be honest: White people might be even less good at reading the clues, and reaching the right conclusion. ...they might just decide to avoid you out of, um, "convenience" (such a nicer word than "racism")

...as BC points out, even if you are a neighbor they might not even talk to you until you state something like "wow, that shooting was scary close to our building. Glad I was typing on the internet and never go outside." (I couldn't resist that last part)

...leaving you to wonder:

"what, did that white guy assume I was pro-crime before this? Like was I friends with the fools dealing?

He has talked to me ever since that day, like he thinks I can warn him about when the next shooting is going to occur as a result of some meeting of blacks I attend on Tuesday nights..."

...which, among other things, might make one more than a little annoyed.

I totally get what you and BC are saying and I agree. It's important to not just be some outsider in any community you're a part of. I have always befriended or at least worked to communicate regularly with neighbors, and I think it would help anyone moving into CH to do the same. By doing so you quickly realize most people who live there aren't scary and are just good hard working people looking to get by. That understanding and mutual respect goes a long way. I don't think too many "slummers" realize this.

At the same time though not everyone WANTS to be all neighborly, and living on a block shouldn't mean you HAVE to be. I mean I knew a few people on my block, but there were some familiar faces I probably never spoke to more than once. I see both sides of it.

And moving into CH can definitely be an overwhelming experience. I lived in "East PH" for 2 years and loved it. Moved about 3 blocks west and was not crazy about it. Even a reduction in rent couldn't sway me. So for people who are used to the area it's fine, but the amount of adjustment one would have to make coming from a more "suburban upbringing" might be too much for many.

CTK, I'm intrigued by your discussion of the differences in you and your girldfriend's approaches to the neighbors. You speak to some of your neighbors, acknowledge them when you see the, and say hello here or there. I assume you do those things both when you are with your girlfriend and when you are alone.

Your girlfriend speaks to no one at any time? Not even people who may live in the same building as you or who she passes by every day? I'm assuming that you live in a multi-family dwelling. Does she say hello to your landlord/super? Or any of your neighbors at all? I guess I don't understand how you can live in a building with other people, pass them by everyday, and not be comfortable at least acknowledging their existance. And why did she not feel comfortable? saying hello?

Cool The Kid wrote: At the same time though when you're being spit at or treated badly it's hard to buckle down and say 'those must just be a few bad apples'. Its like the chicken and the egg. Some members of both parties are to blame.

You say this, yet this is exactly what you are telling Black people they should do in regards to mistreatment by whites! ;-)

MHA wrote: A Jew -- whether secular or observant would not tolerate your nonsense, and I don't think I should grant you any tolerance myself.

MHA wrote: then there is some parallel to the actions of Jews who devalue Jewish history. Jewish scholar and lawyer Alan Dershowitz rightly calls these people self hating jews.

MHA wrote: One thing I've always admired about the Jewish people is that before you are accepted into the fold as an adult you have to let your community know that you know what it is to be Jewish. You have to know your HISTORY.

MHA, just as I'm sure there are plenty of Black people who would not like to be spoken for in the name of Louis Farrakhan or even the comparatively moderate Cornell West, using Alan Dershowitz's voice to speak for anyone but Alan Dershowitz is about your perception/prejudice, not the truth. Personally, I find Dershowitz and his ilk repugnant. And I find your repeated references to Jews, as if we are a homogeneous body with a single valid voice denied only by self-haters, offensive.

Moreover, there is vigorous debate among us about what it means to remember history and what history we should remember and act upon. Very recent history? Well, some might say very recently, some of us have been in a powerful and favored position and chosen to oppress Palestinians and create an apartheid system. Some might say it matters that in this very recent history some of us have disgracefully aligned ourselves with South Africa during its years of apartheid. Others will say that we need to be strong and powerful and that through a 5000 year history of oppression, we earned the right to defend the little piece of land the United Nations gave us by whatever means necessary. Many of us are somewhere in the middle of these two extremes. We have many voices and there are many reasonable approaches to the question of our history.

Finally, no one person's experience or judgment invalidates others' experience or judgment. It seems that some of the Black folks posting in this thread have been trying to make a similar point about their relationships with race, which clearly differ from each other's and from yours.

ntfool wrote: In other words, we moved here because of the existing community, not to ignore/destroy what was already present to create the new Williamsburg.

THANK YOU!!! =D>

is has been discussed amongst my neighbors and everyone pretty much feels the same way; so all those months and years you could never say hi or good morning or even act like we exist but now all of a sudden you want to be best friends? Well you should have thought about that before so go find out what happened online!

aww, they didn't say hi to you and make you feel important enough, so now you won't talk to them about people getting shot?

call the wahmbulance.

Acting above-it-all is never excusable.

it's your choice to interpret silence and going about one's daily life as "a hipster above-it-all attitude"

I hate the Rite Aid, I must admit, but I love all the little stores on Nostrand. I got the best bag EVER in this little luggage store. I abuse my bags terribly and I've had more expensive bags fall apart in a week, and this one is going on strong for two years, which is amazing, considering the numbers of scripts I stuff in it. And the produce stands and health food stores are awesome. Ital Shak and Imhotep's are awesome for a quick cheap meal. And there's that new place that opened up that is pretty good too. I miss the Carribbean restaurant on the corner of Lincoln and Kingston, which just became a kosher pizzeria.

Mr. Met, these people that I bitch about are hardly silent. They yak yak yak all day on their iPhones and are pretty vocal to their "friends" or whoever they're yapping to that they think they are living amongst trash.

One can be respectful and silent. Good lord, I'm hardly the most social of people at times, and even I can manage a head nod.

oh, i misunderstood. you were saying that you hear white people saying they live amongst trash? that's not nice, if that's what they were saying.

lilbangladesh wrote: Thankfully, there haven't been too many of the hipster variety in this neighborhood yet. They would annoy the piss out of me and I'm white. it was all good. Basically, people want to be acknowledged, and the hipster crowd is just as likely to refuse to acknowledge me (cause I'm 40 and not so hip) as the black people who live here. I've ran into a few here and there (they only want to speak to me when some crime happens), and I treat them with as much disdain as my black neighbors. Acting above-it-all is never excusable.

I'm 58 and am acknowledged always.

I have a strange hunch that your problem is not your age, the nabe, the gentrification, or the hipsters.

I think I know exactly what your problem might be. I think you do as well.

mr. met wrote: hipster = young-ish white person

and hipster seems to have a negative connotation

hmmm

it is not just any young ish white person it is a whole certain style

mr met, with all due respect, I think you need to lighten up a bit!

Good god I'm glad I moved to Bushwick six years ago instead of Crown Heights. This shit has to be tiring for everyone involved. Bushwick, at least on my street, does not have this seething headfuck drama trauma.

But this makes for entertaining reading at work. Thanks for that!