Getting spat at because of who i am

-- and just like that, the promise of an intelligent thread vanished --

I'm out.

whynot_31 wrote: -- and just like that, the promise of an intelligent thread vanished --

I'm out.

I think there is still hope. Beyond the hyperbole & flamebaiting mr met makes some good points. There does seem to be a somewhat unwarranted hatred of hipsters. Just look at all the stereotypes thrown out over the last few posts. Ppl complain that "hipsters" don't say hi or talk... but is that after the same ppl have taken the first step?

actually that is incorrect as for the dealing drugs part

not on street corners!

whatevs. i don't really care. it's not like i honestly feel persecuted by this stuff.

it's just..."hipster" is not a real thing! it's a joke. an internet meme. no real people are like that, no matter how they dress.

i guess what does get under my skin a little bit is when people from crown heights try to suggest that "hipsters" are somehow ruining the neighborhood because they are all such disrespectful assholes. it's stupid.

xoxo

Inelson, I am so sorry you find me so offensive. I will say to you that the diverse views you expect all Jews to have would NOT have allowed them to survive as a people for these 5000 or so years; personally, I find Jews like you naive, and ahistorical, and ultimately the happy-go-lucky unbeknownst betrayers of 'your' cultural and historical heritage, and progeny -- but that's just me.

Appositionally, I do agree with you that the situation in Israel and Palestine is abhorrent, and need of some sort of resolution. Indeed, I will even go as far as to be slightly critical of the very founding of the nation itself; but this opinion, and the honing of my position on 'The Jews' - the term you so dislike me saying - are so perpendicular to what the issue at hand here is, which is the offense act of spitting as one walks by...

Furthermore, you claim YOUR Jewish heritage, disclaim my right to say 'the Jews', THEN claim that 'the Jews do not like to be all lumped in and spoken for'. Sure they don't, and that is not my intention. My intention is to tell you what I think. However, one of the distinct members of 'YOUR Group' lays out what HE sees as detrimental to the survival of 'HIS people', and he calls those people 'self-hating Jews'. so whether you think he is repugnant or not, he has philosophical, political, AND cultural sway amongst 'THE Jews', and I think it is relevant to mention HIM. Your opinion here is SO topical (and maybe even typical), because like so many people, you do not know how to make an argument. you LABEL the opinion I make without even making attempt to tell me why it is offensive to YOU, because you FEEL that Dershowitz is 'repugnant'? Well, sorry, but FEELINGS don't cut it here. REASONED arguments do. This is another example of the ad hominem here; and since I am a Black man I'm gonna alter the term to reflect that: 'ad hominem nigritudo'.

What gets me is how 'offensive' you find my argument. Why is it so offensive to you? Making a statement about Jews -- as a group --one that menitions NO stereotype whatsoever -- HOW is that offensive? There are certain things that identify Jews as Jews, and there are certain RELATIVELY homogenous opinions associated with Jews. I mentioned ONE of them. YOU, sir/miss, are NOT the majority. I think it's pretty accurate to speak with a broad brush here.

And, for the sake of clarity, my expression of CTK's argument, ,alling him self hating was something I hesitated to do -- for the record -- and that is why I laid out an argument BEFORE coming to that conclusion.

What bothers me about Inelson here is that by claiming my words as offensive, he/she is a step away of calling ME an ANTI-SEMITE(!) because after all, if I am talking about 'the Jews', and I say something "offensive" about the Jews, then ergo, I am an anti-semite; what a mother-effin irony! Folks, this is another case of Orwellian's bleating sheep: four legs good, two legs bad.

The problem Dershowitz might have with Inelson here is that he/she claims identity with no protocol, and he argues that what has happened to many members of the Jewish tribe is that they have been lulled by relatively tolerant contexts to relax their sense of selves, almost to the point that they claim a Jewish identity without any relationship to God, or to the protocol of being a matrilineal descendant of a Jewish woman, as well as the accompanying ethos. I felt comfortable saying 'the Jews' because it is my sense that there is a CULTURE that binds them, that ensures that they live by an ethos that protects the interests of their people, and I am quite admiring of that. I get the sense that Inelson is living under the illusion/delusion that he/she is an 'individual' which folks, like race, is another social construct -- and a relatively new one at that. Individuality is a wonderful concept, but in my opinion where it threatens cultural identity, then by it's nature it forces either the culture to change, or the individual to conform their idyosyncracy (sorry for the spelling) under the characteristics which identifies 'the group'. Essentially all cultural groups have an ETHOS.

Case in point: Not many Jews out there marrying the descendant s of Nazis;
-- I'm just sayin' -- Yet I am NOT surprised that CTK's partner is a white woman. It falls in tandem with Dershowitz's self-hating thesis where an individual 'betrays' the ethos of the group and marry's/ couples with an 'outsider'. -- Jus' sayin'...

Lastly Inelson, you are obviously new to the conversation. I have made it quite clear that these are MY opinions, yet anecdotally (and accurately), my opinions mirror those of the large swath of Black people in this neighborhood, whether you like it or not. I have said here -- quite recently that it is Buddhist to say that there is no such thing as THE truth, there is YOUR truth and MY truth, and what is expressed here whether I like it or not is all a part of the big picture. What I have found offensive is that in attempt to present the BLACK truth, it is constantly devalued and demeaned and labelled as 'offensive', 'angry', 'rage', and 'misguided'. And that there exists such a thing as a 'Black perspective 'about spitting (or anything!) is somehow specious. It DOES exist however. But this stance about a Black view on things isn't new. Afrocentricity was shot down via academia, 'Black history' as a subject has been shot down; shucks, civil rights as an ideology expressing the interests of BLACK PEOPLE was shot down. And who did the shooting down? Those individuals whose interests were not in the interests of Blackvolk. I mean I'm jus' sayin'....

Inelson, for the record, I will not be responding to ANYTHING about the Jews in this or likely any future thread. 'You guys' are too powerful: 'you' own the media, the stores, and likely the building in which I reside; also I really don't want the Mossad to come in through the windows in a silent Black helicopter and encourage me to die of natural causes. Shalom.... ; )

funny and topical story (because i'm bored):

i was walking into my apt building and an older woman held the door for me. i had something in my mouth, so i didn't say thank you right away. immediately, the woman turned back to me and said "YOUR WELCOME." people are so sensitive. i'm sure she things i'm an asshole.

MHA wrote:

For the record, I agree with EVERYTHING Cornel West has said, and believe me, his politics are no where near as conservative as mine. ; )

Cosign! :-)

MHA wrote: Outside Child, are ya single? Yer pluckin' the strings to MHA heart!

Oh come on, you two...take that over to gentriconfrondating.com .

(for any newer folks here, "gentriconfrontation" is a classic term coined on these very boards some time ago), and the " - gentriconfron- " portmanteau is used wherever convenient, such as when one might say that Franklin Park is on the cutting edge of Hoegaardegentriconfrontation. Ha, have at it...)

Sheesh...thank you MHA, just removed mine.

Use this page to remove your info:
http://www.spokeo.com/privacy

Took 1 minute to remove it.

<-- STILL refuses to join Facebook

I've been lurking and would like to throw my little story into the mix, not that it's all that important. I moved here 3 1/2 years ago after my ex and I split up. I got some shit in the beginning (mostly from other women), sometimes I kept my mouth shut and sometimes I didn't. Nothing big ever happened though and now I rarely have problems in the neighborhood. I think part of the reason why I'm cool with people now is that I talk to just about everyone. I'm friendly but I don't get in people's business, unless an animal is involved. People started recognizing me and got used to seeing me feeding the strays with my dogs.

I also used to take my dogs for long walks on my days off all over, down one street then up another. Across Fulton, down to Kingston, across EP to Medgar Evers, basically as far as the dogs could walk. It helped me learn about the neighborhood but I mostly did it because I love old buildings and there are tons of them here.

I grew up in Brooklyn and have always had friends of every color (I know, it sounds like the whole "but my best friend is black!" argument) so that was normal for me. I don't pretend to know what it's like to be anyone else, black or white, man or woman. I only know what it's like to be me but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in other people or their lives.

Maybe this makes no sense or I sound like I'm full of shit but it's just my experience.

P.S. I do almost all my shopping locally and have never even been in a Whole Foods.

LOL! Hamilton, that's a GOOD one! Seriously, touche' man, I am over hear really laughing. That's very funny! : )). You're a funny guy dude! LMAO

CTK, listen man, I am three steps ahead of you buddy. I am sure that the Ghanaian woman you meet as well as the sisters think that your loving a white woman is solely a function of love. I have difficulty buying your perspective because all of the Blackfolks I know who are in interracial relationships, and all of the articles I have read about them always point out the confrontation that they had to endure, both from others and themselves regarding whether or not their attraction was based on a greater aesthetic and cultural value placed on whiteness and/or a legitimate 'love connection' as you so mention. I'm sorry dude, you devalue everything you say in my ears. All of the Blackfolks I have spoken to regarding our little lovefest have said to me under their breath, I wouldn't be too surprised if he has a white woman, an lo, you do... So you make perfect sense to me. You do. I would love to deconstruct your kind right now, but I am very hungry. MHA food is gettin' cold.

I have asked you repeatedly if you have read any works by Blackfolks and you have not answered the query. I have asked you about Nkrumah -- you countryman for God's sake -- and you have not answered the query, so I can only assume that you have either read the works of these people and are too modest to talk about them, or you haven't; I choose the latter. So here you are, an African UNFAMILIAR with the great works of Africans. What can I say dude?! I gotta dismiss you (like you knew I would!) man; As Flavah Flave said in 'She Watchin' Channel Zero' -- "Read a book or somethin'!" So here you go whitefolks, an African with no sense of history agreeing with YOU. Take his word and forego mine. Value his words, because they reflect YOUR interests. After all he's 'black, but not THAT Black.'

And then either intentionally or not you are gonna call Farrakhan my boy, and I don't know if you are derisively calling Farrakhan a boy, but as I made very clear, in addition to disagreeing with his calling Judaism a gutter religion, I also feel very strongly about him because of the death of Malcolm -- whom I think you have no understanding of -- which, dude, as a Black man living in America, whether born or not, is REALLY sad.

Dude, YOU HAVE TOTALLY MISCONSTRUED ME IF YOU THINK I AM DEEMING FARRAKHAN MY SOURCE ABOUT JEWISH PEOPLE.

My brother, I am not gonna swing at someone I cannot see. Again, this is akin to that scene in Invisible Man where the Black blindfolded boy protagonist was forced to fight against other Black blindfolded boys. I believe I said to you that if you want to disagree with me you could make this a private message; I believe I did say that, and if not, I'll just say it here. I am not gonna argue with you anymore man. Seriously.

We are like Ali and Foreman here,
In what was once Zaire, and
I got you in a rope-a-dope...
-- and you ain' got NO hope...

Hey,
Do you know what the ryhme EVEN MEANS, CTK?

CTK, what I wonder is why are you so quick to jump up to defend whites and jews(are they white I am not sure exactly) but so quick to shoot down Black people?
Why ?

Outside Child wrote: CTK, what I wonder is why are you so quick to jump up to defend whites and jews(are they white I am not sure exactly) but so quick to shoot down Black people?
You say you are Black yet you behave like captain save a whitey(NO DISRESPECT INTENDED AT ALL JUST A BIT OF LEVITY) so please explain why! Are you whipped? :-k

thats levity?
i bet you humor goes over big at the NOI conventions.

a woman held the door for me in my building this morning. i said thank you. she said nothing.

was spitting called for in this case?

MHA wrote: Can I still call the whiteman the whiteman though?

In the scheme of things, I'd say that's pretty harmless.

But thanks in advance to all present for considering the bigger picture, making sure the overall messages and honest exchanges here aren't lost in the hubbub over some of the distracting words occasionally used to convey them.

Sometimes temptations (to use distracting language or personally-targeted rhetoric) are better left as nothing more than that if we value the overall discussion.

There is a guy who lives on my block that has 2 kids, I think. He's in his 20's, he is unemployed, and I believe he has a criminal record. He's a nice guy. We say 'whaddup' to each other everytime we see each other, and we keep it movin'. He supplements his income by buying weed wholesale from a nearby dealer and selling it it retail then selling it retail to folks, and he also makes money by selling oils and incense on the side somewhere in Brooklyn. I know this because as I walk by, I hear his cell phone conversations about weed, oils and incense from time to time. His kids -- through what I hear from his neighbors -- run up and down the apartment all the time. I see this guy sometimes slouched in front of his building, smoking a cigarette or a blunt, walking up and down the block, and well, it's unnerving. How does one reach someone like that? And this is just one guy -- and he's one of the friendlier people out there. His early life mistakes are like anchors around his neck. What choice does he have in life? Were we to examine the preceding circumstances that led to this point, you would have to factor in the lack of a father in his life, a negligent mother, inferior schooling, etc. But this is where he is now. This guy is one of the spitters out there, and one of the litterers out there; he feels threatened by the changing neighborhood, and tries to reclaim it with spit, litter and a surly attitude. I am not justifying his behavior, but trying to make it comprehensive.

Speaking of comprehensive, Whynot_31's 'black trash' moniker makes sense to me. I've always felt uneasy with 'white trash' as a concept, because whenever one spoke about 'white trash and where they lived as a group', then others would say 'the blacks', and that somehow implied what made 'white trash' trash was their association with Black people,(whose poverty was more a result of de jour and de facto racism, and not vice-based behavior.) Thus white flight becomes au courant once Black people move into a neighborhood because whitefolks don't want to be called 'white trash'. 'Black trash' universalizes the 'trashiness' concept. But still, I don't think poverty best defines trashiness -- though it is a component . As my momma always said, you can be poor AND clean.

For the record whynot_31, there is already a word for 'Black trash':
'niggers'.

My guess is that you don't feel comfortable using it, and I don't blame you dude, neither do I. But that's fodder for another conversation....