7/17/2010: Someone Shot Near Corner of Franklin Park
Someone got shot twice near the tattoo parlor near the corner of Franklin Avenue and Park Place. It's my understanding that there was an exchange of words between two young men, and one shot the other in his left leg. I heard the shots; I heard two. Some have said there were three. First there was one, and there was enough time before the second to say, 'Was that a gunshot?' And then there was a second, then a growing crowd, and a few screams. This happened at about 2:35pm. As it so happened there was a police car practically parallel to the shooting. Someone said that he saw the whole thing happen, and that he witnessed the police witnessing the shooter as he walked/ran away. The whole area is now clogged with traffic. I called 911 no more than 2 minutes after the shooting. The 911 operator was a total douchebag. He asked me what happened, and I told him the obvious, he asked when, and I told him just awhile a go, I asked him repeatedly when would an ambulance arrive. It took some time before the ambulance arrived. It took too long if you ask me. The young man lay on the ground, first conscious, then in and out of consciousness -- presumably he was going into shock. Then he convulsed a few times. Someone tried to keep him conscious and give him water. No no no, don't do that; the 911 operator said the same thing. The cops stood around -- rookies. None made any attempt to tend to his wounds. One of them slowly got police tape and began making a perimeter, then it became cops being cops and pushing people back: "Step back please, step back."
"Where is the ambulance?!" became the cry. Step back please step back. A cop put his hands on my chest. I took a long look at his face, and his badge number. I could see it in his eyes:'Please touch me.' I didn't.
Then came the usual chatter about brothers killing brothers, and how 'it's a part of The Plan'; 'No, we are killing ourselves.' Others talked about seeing the guy walk away calmly, others said, "just over a disagreement?"
Sad, all sad.
"Where is the ambulance?!" became the cry. Step back please step back. A cop put his hands on my chest. I took a long look at his face, and his badge number. I could see it in his eyes:'Please touch me.' I didn't.
Then came the usual chatter about brothers killing brothers, and how 'it's a part of The Plan'; 'No, we are killing ourselves.' Others talked about seeing the guy walk away calmly, others said, "just over a disagreement?"
Sad, all sad.
Comments
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Sounds like a lot of your story focuses on the Police, I guess we gotta blame someone,right! If the Officer had to put his hand on your chest, I'm assuming you were right in the middle of the Crime scene and probably thought it would be a prime opportunity to provoke a Cop doing his job.
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Dude if YOU want to think it was my intent to provoke a cop, then live your azure blue fantasy. The cops did NOTHING for him. NOTHING. No first aid, NOTHING. I along with others were trying to ensure the brother made it. The cops were pushing away the VERY people trying to help him. So yeah, I am critical of the cops here. They stood around putting YELLOW tape around the guy, offering NO HELP to him. NONE. NYET, NADA, not a goddamned thing. Were YOU there? If you weren't there then you have no credence here. NONE. NYET, NADA.
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I'm with KWAC
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Welll whoop di doo Mamacita. If you think that the cops were pushing away people who were making attempt to incite the police, then you are nuts. That did not happen. That's not reality. I made no such attempt. Nor did others. We waited and waited for an ambulance. It took a long time for one to come, and finally a fire engine came. Finally an ambulance came, but it took some time to come. The police did nothing for this guy Mamacita, do you hear me? NOTHING. Is that police protocol too? No first aid until EMS arrives?
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I saw this same incident today while finishing up my run. In fact I overheard one of the police casually say as he got into his car "Well I guess it's time for me to get a Slurpee!" and then drive off. There was still a huge crowd gathered.
I have no love for the police in this neigborhood. Just before (or maybe at the same time this shooting was going on, I was only out for a 40 min run) I got stopped and frisked by male cops who stopped me while I was jogging then frisked/pat me down (while I was wearing spandex running shorts, and a sports bra.. what did they think I was hiding in there?) They said they were "going to be nice today" but that they could have given me a ticket for disorderly conduct because I was not carrying ID?!?! I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was committing the crime of operating a pair of Nikes without a permit.
Anyway it appalls me that the cops in this town have the time to harass random people on the street for NO reason (except maybe to cop a feel) and yet they would do nothing for this injured guy and even make jokes about it. -
double
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I agree with KWAC and Mamacita. A shooting occurs and somehow the police, not the shooter, are demonized. I hope they catch him and that the victim survives.
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There you go KWAC. There you go Mamacita. What now? What rationale to describe this behavior?
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citymouse wrote: Well I saw this same incident today while finishing up my run. In fact I overheard one of the police casually say as he got into his car "Well I guess it's time for me to get a Slurpee!" and then drive off. There was still a huge crowd gathered.
That's truly appalling. I hope you got their badge numbers and intend to file a complaint.
I have no love for the police in this neighborhood. Just before (or maybe at the same time this shooting was going on, I was only out for a 40 min run) I got stopped and frisked by male cops who stopped me while I was jogging then frisked/pat me down (while I was wearing spandex running shorts, and a sports bra.. what did they think I was hiding in there?) They said they were "going to be nice today" but that they could have given me a ticket for disorderly conduct because I was not carrying ID?!?! I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was committing the crime of operating a pair of Nikes without a permit.
Anyway it appalls me that the cops in this town have the time to harass random people on the street for NO reason (except maybe to cop a feel) and yet they would do nothing for this injured guy and even make jokes about it.
I'm guessing KWAC has a rationalization for this one, too, though. The police always have a good reason for what they do, and their behavior must not be questioned. -
Jack Krohn wrote: I agree with KWAC and Mamacita. A shooting occurs and somehow the police, not the shooter, are demonized. I hope they catch him and that the victim survives.
I'm sure if the victim survives, he will refuse to testify against or even identify the shooter.
I have a feeling such 'victims' are often not completely innocent. -
MHA I'm sure your frustration with the cops is, in part, displaced anxiety about the young man. Where is he now? Was his family notified? etc. Part of what is frustrating here, no doubt, is the difficulty of following up on how he is doing and the irritating system whereby really concerned members of the community are cordoned off almost immediately by cops who treat the whole process as if they are running a checkout at walgreens. Maybe you can try to combat your frustration by taking action---setting up a means for community members to discuss and follow up on crime scenes/shootings in the nabe. I think that would mean a lot to people. You could even establish it thru brooklynian....as you have already begun, in a way.
Anhow, as horrific as everything looked this morning, I'm sure he'll be OK if he was only shot in the leg. I hope you recognize that you've been a little traumatized yourself, and be kind to yourself. -
I'm disturbed that the police will not take the time to deal with a much more serious situation like SOMEONE GETTING SHOT.. thankfully it sounds like he will survive if it was just in the leg?
We really don't know what the situation was here. But it is disturbing to me that people are just jumping to blame the shot guy.
Also let's not forget that both things can be true. The "victim" may not be "completely innocent," AND the police can be incompetent pigs, AT THE SAME TIME. -
FYI Police are not required to render medical assistance to Gunshot Victims. Police are not trained nor do they carry items used such as latex gloves to handle blood and other bio hazards. Officers at the scene of an Emergency incident are required to maintain crowd control,preserve evidence and request the response of EMS. Believe it or not, it is unlawful to render medical assistance to a injured party if you're not qualified to do so. Im also willing to bet that the victim in this case is probably not an innocent victim either, just a hunch.
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Having been certified in CPR and First Aid I found it strange but true that there are rules and legal repercussions that are really ridiculous about dealing with these issues. You can get sued for so many reasons by jumping in to help or not. I'm too exhausted after work to look all this up, and not sure if NYC is the same as the state i took my training in... but yeah, plenty of sides and angles to every story. One thing is true. "it is unlawful to render medical assistance to a injured party if you're not qualified to do so." I seem to recall that if you are licensed to do so and don't your in trouble too.
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I agree with Independent Mind completely. It's really horrible to have this happen in our neighborhood and especially traumatic to have witnessed it. The police have really specific orders-- they need to secure the area and make sure no one else gets shot, basically. I know it may seem heartless, but their job is to keep the crime scene preserved and protect the community by making sure that this guy doesn't come back and start shooting other people. Nonetheless, I think anger is a natural response, it's the dominant expression of fear, sadness, frustration.
I should say-- I am NOT always a fan of the police. I think their presence in this neighborhood is often overwhelming, especially in the morning in the subway when kids are just trying to go to school; and let's not get started about the helicopters.
But I also agree that we should be focused on the guy who actually shot someone today. A few weeks ago someone was shot just on Franklin and Lincoln over, I think, a girl. What was this about? I'm really glad that the person will hopefully be okay, but now all of us who live in this neighborhood, and especially those of us who send kids out the door on their skateboard or bike now feel less safe and will have a slight knot in our throat the next time someone's late in the door because, often, gun-wielding men have terrible aim. -
That's right, so another thing we can all do next time if standing around horrified at a crime scene, instead of scrutinizing the (admittedly callous) police, is to shout out' is anyone here a certified cpr/first aid responder etc' and then tell them to identify themselves to the police, who, are also obliged by law, to allow them to attend to the injured party etc.
its all about taking your frustration and making solutions... -
Really good point and valuable information Independent Mind.
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Unfortunately Officers who work in busy Precincts will see hundreds of attrocities ranging from Homicides, Rapes and even dead infants. This often results in a hardened seemingly callous response from Officers at such events. Its a natural defense mechanism that develops after witnessing more than is humanly possible to see, similar to soldiers suffering from post traumatic stress disorder. Police sometimes forget that getting shot and for those witnessing someone get shot is quite traumatic and their response may seem unusual to outsiders. Imagine if the people paid to maintain order and stay cool broke down at every Crime scene, with Cops in tears and frantically running around with all the other onlookers.
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I, too, witnessed this event today and observed a gentleman get in the face of the first officer as soon as he approached the scene, and I was disturbed by the anger directed at the police (who I am no apologist for). Misplaced anger and frustration if you ask me. Why is it that the shooter (who is probably known by everyone involved) is allowed to simply walk away? Who is supposed to be angry and frustrated about that?
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citymouse wrote:
I've little doubt that this is the case.
Also let's not forget that both things can be true. The "victim" may not be "completely innocent," AND the police can be incompetent pigs, AT THE SAME TIME. -
I wonder if dat was MHA all up in da Cops grill?
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Girl in the city wrote: I'm really glad that the person will hopefully be okay, but now all of us who live in this neighborhood, and especially those of us who send kids out the door on their skateboard or bike now feel less safe and will have a slight knot in our throat the next time someone's late in the door because, often, gun-wielding men have terrible aim.
I think the community would benefit from weapons training for wannabe gangsters. If they knew how to correctly use their sights and grips, had good trigger technique, proper breathing, and understood the importance of cleaning your weapon, we could walk the streets in perfect confidence. We already give needles to junkies, so why not try this?
We could do one better by instituting a "Needles for Guns" exchange program. I've already thought of a great slogan: "Shoot Yourself Instead!" -
cops vilified, but everyone in the community adheres to the BS no snitching credo...
what an effin' joke. -
Reflecting on this event later in the day I couldn't help but think about how practically every other building (I exaggerate) in this neighborhood houses a church. There is a serious disconnect in our society between community forums and our youth. (This is not to put blame on churches, but to point out the seeming failure of outreach.)
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I think the Churches have more to do with a Tax write off
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eastbloc wrote: [quote=citymouse]Well I saw this same incident today while finishing up my run. In fact I overheard one of the police casually say as he got into his car "Well I guess it's time for me to get a Slurpee!" and then drive off. There was still a huge crowd gathered.
That's truly appalling. I hope you got their badge numbers and intend to file a complaint.
I have no love for the police in this neighborhood. Just before (or maybe at the same time this shooting was going on, I was only out for a 40 min run) I got stopped and frisked by male cops who stopped me while I was jogging then frisked/pat me down (while I was wearing spandex running shorts, and a sports bra.. what did they think I was hiding in there?) They said they were "going to be nice today" but that they could have given me a ticket for disorderly conduct because I was not carrying ID?!?! I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was committing the crime of operating a pair of Nikes without a permit.
Anyway it appalls me that the cops in this town have the time to harass random people on the street for NO reason (except maybe to cop a feel) and yet they would do nothing for this injured guy and even make jokes about it.
I'm guessing KWAC has a rationalization for this one, too, though. The police always have a good reason for what they do, and their behavior must not be questioned.
I thought it was my understanding that males cant touch females vice versa. I'd look into it and if so, definately file a complaint. -
King without a crown wrote: FYI Police are not required to render medical assistance to Gunshot Victims. Police are not trained nor do they carry items used such as latex gloves to handle blood and other bio hazards. Officers at the scene of an Emergency incident are required to maintain crowd control,preserve evidence and request the response of EMS. Believe it or not, it is unlawful to render medical assistance to a injured party if you're not qualified to do so. Im also willing to bet that the victim in this case is probably not an innocent victim either, just a hunch.
The last line you wrote KWAC, is what makes you appear inhumane.
Innocent or not, injured should be helped by appropriate parties. -
Some men wear sports bras too
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No KWAC, it wasn't me 'all up in DA policeman's grill'. The cops did nothing to intervene. It's my understanding that it is not against the law to intervene where someone needs help, but by offering help you do open up yourself to litigation - in the event that further injury occurs as a result of your involvement. The police were telling people to back away without first determining whether or not there was anyone who could offer help. There is a dentist's office right beside the spot where the young man was shot, and I went in to try to see if the dentist could offer some help to the brother on the street. Jesus Christ, I can see why you are without a crown -- you don't deserve one!
I think it's a HUGE stretch in perspective to conclude that the crowd knew the shooter. In theory I was a part of 'the crowd', and I don't know the shooter. I know others who tried to offer help (again, a part of the crowd) and they too don't know the shooter. It's my hope that the cynicism that saturates this thread is not the truth.
People became frantic with the lack of an approaching ambulance. There was a collective cry: "Where is the ambulance" because it seemed to take forever for one to come. I gurantee you if it was a cop on the street, one would have materialized Star Trek style. For the cynics out there, I wonder if there is room in your mind to accept THAT as truth...
What fucks with me is that if this happened to me (may the gods forbid it) no doubt all of you cynics would be saying the same thing: I bet you MHA knows who did it, and he probably won't 'snitch'. Shame on you all. Seriously. Think about what you're saying. A young man was SHOT today. And none of us know why. He could have been your kin, or your friend, or father, or brother. Jesus H Christ, stop acting like arseholes.
This ruined the remainder of my day. I think metaphysically, we were all shot today. -
Subject: Re: 7/17/2010: Gunshots Near Corner of Franklin & Park
MHA wrote: Someone got shot twice near the tattoo parlor near the corner of Franklin Avenue and Park Place. It's my understanding that there was an exchange of words between two young men, and one shot the other in his left leg. I heard the shots; I heard two. Some have said there were three. First there was one, and there was enough time before the second to say, 'Was that a gunshot?' And then there was a second, then a growing crowd, and a few screams. This happened at about 2:35pm. As it so happened there was a police car practically parallel to the shooting. Someone said that he saw the whole thing happen, and that he witnessed the police witnessing the shooter as he walked/ran away. The whole area is now clogged with traffic. I called 911 no more than 2 minutes after the shooting. The 911 operator was a total douchebag. He asked me what happened, and I told him the obvious, he asked when, and I told him just awhile a go, I asked him repeatedly when would an ambulance arrive. It took some time before the ambulance arrived. It took too long if you ask me. The young man lay on the ground, first conscious, then in and out of consciousness -- presumably he was going into shock. Then he convulsed a few times. Someone tried to keep him conscious and give him water. No no no, don't do that; the 911 operator said the same thing. The cops stood around -- rookies. None made any attempt to tend to his wounds. One of them slowly got police tape and began making a perimeter, then it became cops being cops and pushing people back: "Step back please, step back."
It's fun to smell your own farts!
"Where is the ambulance?!" became the cry. Step back please step back. A cop put his hands on my chest. I took a long look at his face, and his badge number. I could see it in his eyes:'Please touch me.' I didn't.
Then came the usual chatter about brothers killing brothers, and how 'it's a part of The Plan'; 'No, we are killing ourselves.' Others talked about seeing the guy walk away calmly, others said, "just over a disagreement?"
Sad, all sad.
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