7/17/2010: Someone Shot Near Corner of Franklin Park

MHA wrote: It seems that modsquad thinks my initial post was a prime example of navel gazing; of making the tragedy about me instead of about the victim of the crime -- thus his need to say in essence, I like the smell of my own ass. If that's how the post was perceived by anyone, I apologize. That was not my intention.

I for one didn't see your post that way at all, though my perspective diverges from yours I am respectful of it.

Modsquad, yawn. After ten posts I'd expect a less 'familiar' tone, unless you're an alter ego of someone we know well...

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i wonder what action would be taken if a police officer was shot , would he just lay there waiting for help or would he be rushed to the nearest hospital in a patrol car.

just a thought.

King without a crown wrote: Next time you witness someone get shot, why don't you go ask an Officer?

thanks for responding, officer sipowitz .


i will and i'm sure his/her response would be just as hostile as yours.

Hello all, longtime lurker first time poster here. I work for a safety sensitive agency and come from a long line of civil servants born and raised in NYC, I hope to share a perspective from the inside looking out that some might find interesting. Most of the rules governing local safety sensitive agencies are said to be written in blood and/or money. If you break a rule, you are risking life/safety and/or risking your job if it opens up the possibility of litigation and/or negative press for the safety sensitive agency that you are employed by. Often, new rules are inspired by injury/death and/or lawsuits that old rules failed to protect the agency from being deemed responsible for. Relative to the responsibilities of the job, if one follows the rules one has a better chance of getting home in one piece and waking up the next day with a job that continues to provide financial means towards life support on all levels. There is a chain of command and protocol for all situations, emergency, and safety sensitive, or otherwise, that one is trained to follow. Some employees choose to diverge from training and break the rules, some do not. From self-preservation point of view, following the rules will not always protect your safety but will always protect your job and the continued financial life support of the immediate family you may have left behind.

With the lens as described above let us try and view the post shooting scene as previously described from the perspective of the officers on hand. As trained the officers or first responders have secured the scene, and the scene is safe for the EMTs who have been called to respond to, so that emergency medical assistance can be provided to the victim as required. This seems like the safest response to me. If I were an officer on hand and attempted to do the EMT’s job that I’m not prepared/trained for I might do more damage to the victim than good and I’m definitely putting my own safety at risk if the victim happens to be HIV positive and I have any open cuts that I might not be aware of under a rubber glove that might be defective.

It is surprising to me that the Police Officers did not pursue the armed perpetrator as alleged in the original post. Promotion to Detective can only be earned through job performance, as there is no internal written exams for this pay raise and highly sought after position. The quickest non political path to promotion to Detective is getting documentation on record that you were responsible for getting guns off the street. Uniformed Police Officers are usually tripping over each other to make a gun collar. Very strange indeed.

tsarina wrote: Police officers lives are more valuable them somebody bleeding on the street after being shot in an arguement in front of a tattoo parlor. AND I dont care if the victim is black, white, yellow or green.

I could not disagree more. Police officer lives are not more valuable than anyone else's. Yes they have a somewhat dangerous job, but they are far less likely to get shot at work than a taxi driver or convenience store clerk, and they are far better compensated for it, with the possibility of retirement with a full pension at an extremely early age.
Police officers that get shot absolutely deserve a rapid response by EMS, but so does anyone else that gets shot. And if I was on the scene when someone got shot, I'd expect the police to let me attend to the victim, no matter who they were. And seriously KWAC, I don't carry latex gloves around with me either, but I wouldn't let someone exsanguinate in front of me when some direct pressure on the wound would stop (or at least mitigate) the bleeding, even from a lacerated femoral artery. This isn't rocket science, people.

Who denied this guy medical attention? Did MHA apply pressure to his wounds? Does anyone tell Carnivore how to do his job?

King without a crown wrote: Who denied this guy medical attention? Did MHA apply pressure to his wounds?

MHA wrote: The police were telling people to back away without first determining whether or not there was anyone who could offer help.

King without a crown wrote: Does anyone tell Carnivore how to do his job?

This wasn't about you personally, this was about the police that responded to the scene of a particular incident. If someone posted here about some bad medical care they received, I wouldn't take it as a personal attack, and I wouldn't automatically jump to the defense of the doctor involved. I would use what I know to help clarify the situation for people here. But you seem determined to act as an apologist for any police behavior, no matter what it is.

From Crow Hill:: (I mailed mine out today)
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Hello All,

By this time, you probably know a young man was shot in the leg on Franklin Avenue, Saturday afternoon at about 2:30.
What you might not know is that Commissioner Kelly is planning to pull the Impact Zone from Franklin and Nostrand Avenues at the end of the month.
This means we will lose the increased foot patrol that has had such a positive effect on our community since January.
We got the first Impact Zone as the result of a very strong letter writing campaign.
We need to do another immeadiately!!!
Even while our neighborhood continues to improve, this is the 3rd shooting on Franklin since the middle of May.

Below is a letter to send to Commissioner Kelly.
PLEASE do it today.
You can send the letter the way it is, or even better, personalize it:
Say how long you have lived in the community,
mention if you are raising a family here
or if you have a business in the area.
But the most important thing is to send it!
We would like to have an idea of how many letters go out, so when you send yours, please reply to this email and just say "I did it"
Thanks and we look forward to seeing you at the About Time Kids Day event this coming Saturday on Franklin between Park & Sterling,
stop by the Crow Hill table and say hi.


- - - - - - - - - - -- - - - -

July 18, 2010

Raymond Kelly
Commissioner, NYPD
One Police Plaza
New York, NY 10038


Dear Commissioner Kelly:

I am a resident of the Crow Hill section of Crown Heights and I understand that at the end of the month Franklin Avenue will no longer be part of the Impact Zone. Given the escalation of gun violence on Franklin over the last couple of months I find this alarming; just this past Saturday someone was shot on our crowded summer street at 2:30 in the afternoon. We can not afford to lose this protection!

The Impact Zone officers have had a very positive effect on Franklin Avenue. The large groups of aggressive young men hanging out on our street corners have diminished and there is less evidence of drug activity, this in turn has led to a more vibrant street life for residents which we both know is an excellent deterrent to crime. But with summer here, it is critical to keep a strong police presence on Franklin Avenue.

We must not allow Franklin Avenue to revert back to more dangerous times.
These shootings MUST stop.
Please keep the Impact Zone on Franklin Avenue.


Sincerely,

(your name)
(your address)

So glad to hear that shooter was found. Thanks a lot MHA!

eastbloc wrote: [quote=citymouse]Well I saw this same incident today while finishing up my run. In fact I overheard one of the police casually say as he got into his car "Well I guess it's time for me to get a Slurpee!" and then drive off. There was still a huge crowd gathered.

I have no love for the police in this neighborhood. Just before (or maybe at the same time this shooting was going on, I was only out for a 40 min run) I got stopped and frisked by male cops who stopped me while I was jogging then frisked/pat me down (while I was wearing spandex running shorts, and a sports bra.. what did they think I was hiding in there?) They said they were "going to be nice today" but that they could have given me a ticket for disorderly conduct because I was not carrying ID?!?! I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was committing the crime of operating a pair of Nikes without a permit.

Anyway it appalls me that the cops in this town have the time to harass random people on the street for NO reason (except maybe to cop a feel) and yet they would do nothing for this injured guy and even make jokes about it.

That's truly appalling. I hope you got their badge numbers and intend to file a complaint.

I'm guessing KWAC has a rationalization for this one, too, though. The police always have a good reason for what they do, and their behavior must not be questioned.

I hope you file a complaint too. But I was wondering.... You didn't say what color the shorts are and are they low riders?

MHA writing dissertations on NOTHING...shocking.

Hamilton wrote: [quote=tsarina]Just to add more fuel to the fire... I would like to respond to the comment that if a police officer was shot the medical help would be there quickey fast. I sure the hell hope so! We hire police officers and make them deal with all the worst of society, and put them in harms way every day. They deserve the best and fastest response in the event of an emergency because of what they do and because we expect them to deal with highly dangerous situations. Police officers lives are more valuable them somebody bleeding on the street after being shot in an arguement in front of a tattoo parlor.

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if it was your chid that was shot , would you accept your absurd analogy of whose life is more valuable. i doubt it.

Yes I;m sure every mother thinks her precious child is the most important person in the world - no matter what. But the reality of the situation, and what I'm trying to convey in my "absurd analogy" is that we put police officers in harms way everyday, so in an emergency, every effort and priority is given to support the officers because they have shown their commitment to protect society and put their lives on the line.
Think of 9/11. Many people died in that attack but police men and firemen are the ones that had to rush into those buildings to try to save lives. And yes they may get compensated for that, but it is still a dangerous and punishing job.

SOOO bottom line , mr or ms XYZ and a police officer lying in the street bleeding with the same woulnds, who gets priority?


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does saving ones life become a multiple choice question.

a. cop shot, save him
b. kid shot near a tattoo shop, save him
c . save both
d. none of the above

it's kind of a no brainer isn't it?

if both are in critical condition and ems is delayed, both should be rushed to the hospital in patrol cars .

tsarina wrote: SOOO bottom line , mr or ms XYZ and a police officer lying in the street bleeding with the same woulnds, who gets priority?

Whichever one is sicker (unless one is wounded so critically that resuscitative efforts would likely be futile).