7/17/2010: Someone Shot Near Corner of Franklin Park
Comments
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[quote="King without a crown"]Apparently you know very little about moving injured victims, because its more then likely that moving someone who has been injured will do more harm then good.
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apparently, you didn't understand my statement, which was a response to tsarinas question ,who should have a priority if a citizen and a police officer had the same wounds and were bleeding?
i stated, if both were in critical condition and there was a delay in ems arriving , then both should be rushed to the hospital in patrol cars in an attempt to save their lives, rather then stand there and watch them bleed to death . -
Subject: Franklin Ave and Park Pl shooting
I was 10 feet in front of the shooting as it happened and heard the dispute and saw the victim get shot. I was the one who flagged down the cop car that drove past the intersection just after the shots were fired. They had their windows up and their police radio was very loud in their car, so they did not hear the gunshots, nor did they see what happened. My roommate (who was with me and also a witness) went to the police academy and the police are not supposed to give medical help as they're not properly trained. The first 2 cops on the scene were not apathetic, and seemed to me to be just as concerned as anyone else there.
There was one man who was trying to incite a riot, shouting at the police, saying that they were afraid to stop. That isn't true. I flagged them down, I saw how quickly they reacted once they knew what happened. They immediately called for backup and an ambulance - I heard them.
We stood and timed how long it took for the first medical help to arrive, which was 11 minutes. This man was shot in the femoral artery and was loosing blood rapidly - 11 minutes is way too long for an injury such as that. But that wasn't out of a lack of trying since several bystanders and local business called 911.
When the detectives came to my apt to get our statements they told us that the victim will probably lose his leg, if he makes it at all - he was still in a coma. They also told us that this is a gang related shooting stemming from a dispute about who gets to work that corner.
Our community needs to stand together on ending violence in this neighborhood. The police can't do it alone. -
There was one man who was trying to incite a riot, shouting at the police, saying that they were afraid to stop.
MHA? -
Thanks Kitty for you incite, but now your claims, character and newbie credentials will be attacked on here.Was the guy inciting the riot wearing an MHA T shirt?
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I believe he was wearing a Run DMC t-shirt and he was rather tall. He just said a lot of false things and was very loud about it. He said he was friends with the victim as well.
I've never posted to this site before since I really didn't have anything to add. This time I did. I'm saddened about the shooting, as I'm sure most people are, and wanted to give a first hand account. Whether or not people attack me for it doesn't concern me.
Was there a shooting on the other side of Eastern Pkwy yesterday? -
Yeah down by Schenectady another male was shot, this guy wasn't as lucky though.
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Oh, I forgot to say that they did catch the shooter and his accomplice. Apparently the two got into a cab and some neighborhood men chased them down, pulled them out and turned them in. Altho the dect. said they were having trouble getting any witnesses to come forward.
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Apparently the two got into a cab and some neighborhood men chased them down, pulled them out and turned them in
fuck yea!
this incident sounds a lot like the leg-shootings that happened further down franklin a few weeks ago. -
Subject: citymouse - can i call 311 with your story?
This whole thread is very upsetting and i'm sorry about every bit of it but I think citymouse's story gets to the heart of the issue. I think anyone who wants to see real change here should call 311 and express outrage at this confluence of events -- police nonchalance about violence and suffering coupled with harassment. Where are their priorities??? What kind of leadership do they have? What kind of operation are they running? if you have badge numbers etc to share please post and i will include that in my complaint. Squeaky wheels do get grease, eventually. Thank you. -
King without a crown wrote: Apparently you know very little about moving injured victims, because its more then likely that moving someone who has been injured will do more harm then good.
My question implies limited resources (albeit in a purely hypothetical situation;) in triaging the situation you even have to choose one to look at first. Choose one, and consider it an emergency crisis situation where every second matters and things are going crazy around you (including the screaming riot inducing guys spewing their venom and not helping the situation at all)....
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apparently, you didn't understand my statement, which was a response to tsarinas question ,who should have a priority if a citizen and a police officer had the same wounds and were bleeding?
i stated, if both were in critical condition and there was a delay in ems arriving , then both should be rushed to the hospital in patrol cars in an attempt to save their lives, rather then stand there and watch them bleed to death . -
Kitty, I was upset the whole day and I didn't see the victim get shot, I only heard it, so I can only imagine what it did to you.
For the record, I did absolutely no yelling at the police. All of my raised voice directives were at the crowd as they jostled the victim. My mom is a nurse, and all I heard in my mind was her voice when I saw this guy on the sidewalk. I have taken EMT classes, and but for a timing snafu I would have taken the final examination; but for not being certified I would have been more vocal towards the police officer putting his fingertips in my chest, and I would have stepped forward and said I was an EMT, but I am not. My prevailing thought was that this kid could have gotten shot in his femoral artery, and that's why I went to the dentist's office to try to procure a pair of scissors. Anyway, I hope he doesn't lose his leg.
I really don't want to get into argument with KWAC or MET here. This is terribly upsetting, and it happened so close. When one hears about Black on Black violence, it's serious, but it's abstract, but when one see and hears it, it's mind-boggling. After the incident a white woman and her daughter were across the street. The mother was smoking Marlboros and I asked her politely for one. She gave it willingly, understanding that the situation called for the cool clean goodness of a cancer stick; I don't smoke unless under duress. She asked me, 'what happened', and after the first wonderful drag I told her that a Black man got shot. ''Yeah, but why,'' she asked, and I told her because Black men are angry at Black men, that we don't know what else to do so we've decided to kill each other. "Welcome to Brooklyn," I said, and the daughter said, "Don't say that, I'm trying to live here!" I told her she has absolutely nothing to worry about, that these guys know better than to harm a blonde hair on her head; that they know there is dire consequence for hurting white women. The mother not skipping a beat said, "Yeah, but what if they miss and she just so happens to be in the vicinity, that's what I'm worried about."
I thanked her for the cigarette and walked away. -
Subject: Re: citymouse - can i call 311 with your story?
dougallcurrie wrote: This whole thread is very upsetting and i'm sorry about every bit of it but I think citymouse's story gets to the heart of the issue. I think anyone who wants to see real change here should call 311 and express outrage at this confluence of events -- police nonchalance about violence and suffering coupled with harassment. Where are their priorities??? What kind of leadership do they have? What kind of operation are they running? if you have badge numbers etc to share please post and i will include that in my complaint. Squeaky wheels do get grease, eventually. Thank you.
We've established from first hand accounts of the incident that the Officers did do there job, were professional and an arrest has already been made in the incident. There are many here that like to throw stones from behind the safety of their computer monitors but do little do change the Community they live in. -
After the incident a white woman and her daughter were across the street. The mother was smoking Marlboros and I asked her politely for one. She gave it willingly, understanding that the situation called for the cool clean goodness of a cancer stick; I don't smoke unless under duress. She asked me, 'what happened', and after the first wonderful drag I told her that a Black man got shot. ''Yeah, but why,'' she asked, and I told her because Black men are angry at Black men, that we don't know what else to do so we've decided to kill each other. "Welcome to Brooklyn," I said, and the daughter said, "Don't say that, I'm trying to live here!" I told her she has absolutely nothing to worry about, that these guys know better than to harm a blonde hair on her head; that they know there is dire consequence for hurting white women. The mother not skipping a beat said, "Yeah, but what if they miss and she just so happens to be in the vicinity, that's what I'm worried about."
this sounds like a bad undergraduate short story.
I thanked her for the cigarette and walked away. -
Subject: Re: citymouse - can i call 311 with your story?
dougallcurrie wrote: This whole thread is very upsetting and i'm sorry about every bit of it but I think citymouse's story gets to the heart of the issue. I think anyone who wants to see real change here should call 311 and express outrage at this confluence of events -- police nonchalance about violence and suffering coupled with harassment. Where are their priorities??? What kind of leadership do they have? What kind of operation are they running? if you have badge numbers etc to share please post and i will include that in my complaint. Squeaky wheels do get grease, eventually. Thank you.
Police nonchalance about violence? When did that occur? what about the gang/drug kids nonchalance about violence? This would seem to be the biggest problem.
Nonchalance about suffering? Would you rather see them crying and getting all emotional about the suffering of the "tough thug" jerks who shoot each other on the street? It would appear the police are doing what they are trained to do in a professional manner. Again I would say the kids shooting one another have the problem of nonchalance about suffering.
Harrassment? Where is the harrassment in this situation? perhaps it is implied because the cops impede the the busines of the kids selling drugs on the street? I dont get it?
You sound like you could be the guy that was screaming all that nonsense at the scene. -
MHA wrote: After the incident a white woman and her daughter were across the street. The mother was smoking Marlboros and I asked her politely for one. She gave it willingly, understanding that the situation called for the cool clean goodness of a cancer stick; I don't smoke unless under duress. She asked me, 'what happened', and after the first wonderful drag I told her that a Black man got shot. ''Yeah, but why,'' she asked, and I told her because Black men are angry at Black men, that we don't know what else to do so we've decided to kill each other. "Welcome to Brooklyn," I said, and the daughter said, "Don't say that, I'm trying to live here!" I told her she has absolutely nothing to worry about, that these guys know better than to harm a blonde hair on her head; that they know there is dire consequence for hurting white women. The mother not skipping a beat said, "Yeah, but what if they miss and she just so happens to be in the vicinity, that's what I'm worried about."
This is no reflection one way or another about anyone here, but...
I thanked her for the cigarette and walked away.
Imagine if that was actually dakotas way. (was that you?) -
Subject: Re: citymouse - can i call 311 with your story?
King without a crown wrote: We've established from first hand accounts of the incident that the Officers did do there [sic] job, were professional and an arrest has already been made in the incident.
We've established no such thing. We've head several conflicting first hand accounts of the incident. It sounds more to me like a Rashomon-type situation, with each witness' report depending on their perspective of the incident. Also an arrest has been made, but without more information it's impossible to know whether this was the actual shooter or just some unlucky dude who happened to get picked up by the NYPD yesterday.King without a crown wrote: There are many here that like to throw stones from behind the safety of their computer monitors but do little do change the Community they live in.
I could not agree more, and that goes for people on both sides in this thread. -
I heard an alternative reason on how the guy was picked up. He was initially identified (apparently) by the surveillance tape in the corner Chinese takeout restaurant. I do recall seeing the police going into the restaurant, but I initially thought maybe they had cornered the suspect in there. Apparently they went in to take a look at the surveillance tapes, which, according to another eyewitness, clearly shows who the shooter is.
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Subject: Re: citymouse - can i call 311 with your story?
King without a crown wrote: [quote=dougallcurrie]This whole thread is very upsetting and i'm sorry about every bit of it but I think citymouse's story gets to the heart of the issue. I think anyone who wants to see real change here should call 311 and express outrage at this confluence of events -- police nonchalance about violence and suffering coupled with harassment. Where are their priorities??? What kind of leadership do they have? What kind of operation are they running? if you have badge numbers etc to share please post and i will include that in my complaint. Squeaky wheels do get grease, eventually. Thank you.
We've established from first hand accounts of the incident that the Officers did do there job, were professional and an arrest has already been made in the incident. There are many here that like to throw stones from behind the safety of their computer monitors but do little do change the Community they live in.
I hate to side with KWAC but lets look at what happened here
- dude gets shot for selling drugs on the wrong corner
- cops get flagged down and immediately secure the scene and call for medical help (while being harassed + antagonized by some locals & possibly having the scene and safety of the victim compromised by people trying to help)
- ambulance takes 11 minutes to arrive (Kings County and Interfaith are a bit of a ways away with all the lights)
- shooter is found and arrested a few days later
What more do people want? Yes it must have been a traumatizing ordeal and will be a sore spot for the people in the neighborhood, but I think in this case the police did their job, regardless of their attitude or poster's personal problems with them. This thread illustrates a lot that is wrong with the people in the people/police relationship- whenever cops are brought up it's all vilification and airing out grievances (what does a cop patting down a jogger have to do with this shooting?). A lot of people in here need to check themselves. I am no fan of cops but a lot of ppl are just being downright silly in here. -
Subject: Re: citymouse - can i call 311 with your story?
Carnivore wrote: Also an arrest has been made, but without more information it's impossible to know whether this was the actual shooter or just some unlucky dude who happened to get picked up by the NYPD yesterday.
MHA wrote: I heard an alternative reason on how the guy was picked up. He was initially identified (apparently) by the surveillance tape in the corner Chinese takeout restaurant. I do recall seeing the police going into the restaurant, but I initially thought maybe they had cornered the suspect in there. Apparently they went in to take a look at the surveillance tapes, which, according to another eyewitness, clearly shows who the shooter is.
More information such as this. If true, it reflects good competent police work.
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Hamilton wrote: [quote=King without a crown]Apparently you know very little about moving injured victims, because its more then likely that moving someone who has been injured will do more harm then good.
My question implies limited resources (albeit in a purely hypothetical situation;) in triaging the situation you even have to choose one to look at first. Choose one, and consider it an emergency crisis situation where every second matters and things are going crazy around you (including the screaming riot inducing guys spewing their venom and not helping the situation at all)....
.
apparently, you didn't understand my statement, which was a response to tsarinas question ,who should have a priority if a citizen and a police officer had the same wounds and were bleeding?
i stated, if both were in critical condition and there was a delay in ems arriving , then both should be rushed to the hospital in patrol cars in an attempt to save their lives, rather then stand there and watch them bleed to death .
.
time to re-read your jul 18th post, where you stated .
" police officers lives are more valuable then somebody bleeding on a street after being shot in an argument in front of a tattoo shop"
was that hypothetical?
i hope his parents never see your posting. -
Subject: Re: citymouse - can i call 311 with your story?
tsarina wrote: [quote=dougallcurrie]This whole thread is very upsetting and i'm sorry about every bit of it but I think citymouse's story gets to the heart of the issue.
--snip--
Harrassment? Where is the harrassment in this situation? perhaps it is implied because the cops impede the the busines of the kids selling drugs on the street? I dont get it?
Read what you yourself quoted a bit more carefully and you might get it -- the harassment observed is related to citimouse's story. -
citymouse wrote: I got stopped and frisked by male cops who stopped me while I was jogging then frisked/pat me down (while I was wearing spandex running shorts, and a sports bra.. what did they think I was hiding in there?) They said they were "going to be nice today" but that they could have given me a ticket for disorderly conduct because I was not carrying ID?!?! I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was committing the crime of operating a pair of Nikes without a permit.
citymouse, you should file a complaint with the NYC Civilian Complaint Review Board. -
Subject: Impact Zone Letter Writing Campaign
FYI - The word from the Crow Hill Community Association is that the impact zones on Nostrand Avenue and Franklin Avenue - which brings an extra police presence to the area - will be removed at the end of this month.
The Crow Hill Community Association is spearheading a letter-writing campaign to make sure that does not happen. They have created a form letter that residents can send to Commissioner Kelly to ask him to keep the impact zones in place. Also, we have adapted the letter so that it is relevant for Nostrand Avenue too. -
mr met quote "MHA" wrote:
.After the incident a white woman and her daughter were across the street. The mother was smoking Marlboros and I asked her politely for one. She gave it willingly, understanding that the situation called for the cool clean goodness of a cancer stick; I don't smoke unless under duress. She asked me, 'what happened', and after the first wonderful drag I told her that a Black man got shot. ''Yeah, but why,'' she asked, and I told her because Black men are angry at Black men, that we don't know what else to do so we've decided to kill each other. "Welcome to Brooklyn," I said, and the daughter said, "Don't say that, I'm trying to live here!" I told her she has absolutely nothing to worry about, that these guys know better than to harm a blonde hair on her head; that they know there is dire consequence for hurting white women. The mother not skipping a beat said, "Yeah, but what if they miss and she just so happens to be in the vicinity, that's what I'm worried about."
this sounds like a bad undergraduate short story.
I thanked her for the cigarette and walked away.
it seems more like mickey spillane, which makes me wonder if MHA is actually Mike Hammer of Africa. -
What more do people want?
people want to complain about shit on a message board. someone gets shot on the street, and people want to turn it into a referendum on police negligence. -
citymouse's story sounds like a scene from Crash. i personally think there was probably something more to the situation, but if it went down exactly like that, i'd be calling the police to try to get that officer in big trouble.
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I'm sure theres more to the mouse's story and the Police are still allowed to conduct a Stop Question and Frisk. Maybe she fit the description of a suspect, maybe she just stopped to interact with a drug dealer. Who knows? Maybe he/she can clarify?
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King without a crown wrote: I'm sure theres more to the mouse's story and the Police are still allowed to conduct a Stop Question and Frisk. Maybe she fit the description of a suspect, maybe she just stopped to interact with a drug dealer. Who knows? Maybe he/she can clarify?
I don't know bro, not too many women who hang out with drug dealers go jogging -
King without a crown wrote: I'm sure theres more to the mouse's story and the Police are still allowed to conduct a Stop Question and Frisk. Maybe she fit the description of a suspect, maybe she just stopped to interact with a drug dealer. Who knows? Maybe he/she can clarify?
Police are allowed to stop and question someone if they have a reasonable suspicion that person has or is about to commit a crime. They're also allowed to frisk if they have a reasonable suspicion the person possesses a weapon and is dangerous.
Taking the story at face value, since citymouse says she was in skintight running gear the police could not have had a reasonable suspicion she was concealing a weapon. I have a reasonable suspicion they just wanted to grope her.
And threatening ticket for not carrying ID is a totally dick move. The NY state Stop and Identify Statute provides that a cop "may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his conduct". There is no requirement to produce a state issued ID, and for that matter there isn't even a penalty for failing to comply. -
And for the curious, these are the NY statutes that define Obstruction (note the requirement of physical force or communications interference) and Disorderly Conduct. Failure to produce ID would not fall under either of these.
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