How safe is Classon bet. Prospect St. Marks? (edited)
Comments
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I played football and wrestled in high school so I was able to fight free for long enough ring every buzzer in the building people finally came out.
Ironically, the person who was mugged was a man. At least, I've never heard of a high school where women play football and wrestle.
A big guy, confident enough in his strength to fight back? Hardly an ideal target. This incident is an EXAMPLE that crimes of personal victimhood CAN and DO happen to ANYONE.
I know it's just a single poster perpetuating the myth that victims of crime are to be blamed, but it's still discouraging. Do I really need to trot out the cliched response?: WhyFi, how would you feel if it happened to your girlfriend, your sister, your mother? Or, in this case: your boyfriend, your brother, your father? -
Cool The Kid wrote: WhyFi, 99% of the time I would say the victim of a mugging in CH/PH couldn't have done much to stop it. Be a little considerate + empathetic.
To agree with you is to state that there's nothing positive that we can do to improve our personal safety as we meander through our streets. Sorry, but I have to disagree. Targets are rarely random. They're not like the cops at the subway station, checking the bags of every 20th person. More troublesome targets will be passed up for less troublesome targets. Less fruitful spoils are passed over for more fruitful spoils.
Does is suck when someone is mugged? Certainly. But what's more useful, sitting around thinking, "man, what shitty luck" or considering "what could I do to discourage this in the future?"krowonhill wrote: I played football and wrestled in high school so I was able to fight free for long enough ring every buzzer in the building people finally came out.
You're projecting your idea of someone who has wrestled and played football, but I know plenty of sorry sacks that have done just that and have zero intimidation factor. An alert, 95 lb woman is more intimidating and troublesome than a 200 lb guy listening to his iPod while walking around with a defeated demeanor.
Ironically, the person who was mugged was a man. At least, I've never heard of a high school where women play football and wrestle.
A big guy, confident enough in his strength to fight back? Hardly an ideal target. This incident is an EXAMPLE that crimes of personal victimhood CAN and DO happen to ANYONE.krowonhill wrote: I know it's just a single poster perpetuating the myth that victims of crime are to be blamed, but it's still discouraging. Do I really need to trot out the cliched response?: WhyFi, how would you feel if it happened to your girlfriend, your sister, your mother? Or, in this case: your boyfriend, your brother, your father?
"Blamed," is a bit harsh, I know, but people should take more control and responsibility. On a couple of occasions, my wife has called me to tell me that she had gotten out of the subway and was walking home. My response has always been, "great honey, now put away your phone, walk confidently with your head up and make eye contact with people." -
Cool The Kid wrote: All you have to do to get mugged is be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
True. Like when I was mugged in Murray Hill. I could have been better about paying attention to my surroundings, but things happen. I find it funny I was mugged in one of the safest nabes in the city, but I've never been shot, stabbed, robbed, or raped in this extremely dangerous neighborhood I live in. -
There was some discussion about several local HS teens doing this in the last year or so that suggested that bigger guys were specifically targeted due to the much greater bragging rights when the teens were in school the next day.
No idea if there was any actual info to lend any weight to that but it is conceivable (nods to Wallace Shawn) in a large-game/trophy-hunting, ego sense.
Especially if the people targeted are a) not following common sense and b) easily intimidated, stunned or overwhelmed due to a false sense of security. -
jeffrey wrote: There was some discussion about several local HS teens doing this in the last year or so that suggested that bigger guys were specifically targeted due to the much greater bragging rights when the teens were in school the next day.
That seems to be a bit paradoxical... wouldn't there be more value in successfully robbing someone with their wits about them?
No idea if there was any actual info to lend any weight to that but it is conceivable (nods to Wallace Shawn) in a large-game/trophy-hunting, ego sense.
Especially if the people targeted are a) not following common sense and b) easily intimidated, stunned or overwhelmed due to a false sense of security.
It's of no consequence. Seems like the muggings come and go in waves. Figure out what the hot spots are and avoid them if you can, and you should be fine. -
The main criteria was suggested to just be a size thing, i.e. "oh yeah, well I took down this guy that was 6"2...top that!"
Agreed on your 2nd point. And grow eyes on the back of your head especially at night, pretty much anywhere.
I'm an equal opportunity head-turner, bad-vibe-projector and street-crosser at night. Best to communicate that you will *not* be an easy target so whoever's out there looking for trouble will opt to wait for some other mark. -
And grow eyes on the back of your head especially at night, pretty much anywhere.
yup. i always look behind and around myself at night out of habit. -
Hmmm, but still, apparently a whole bunch of 'negligent' people walking around here, getting mugged and all. Having been mugged before, I take issue with the 'it's your fault you just have to be more aware' rhetoric. That's the obvious. And I truly doubt anybody walks around here as if we are in the Sound of Music' You can be as aware as a radar, and still be mugged. It's in very poor taste to say that; call me names if you want to, and accuse me of 'flamebaiting' (no idea what that is by the way); I am simply stating opinion.
Whyfi, your name calling is not necessary. -
If I'm not mistaken didn't he call you a pussy?
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King without a crown wrote: If I'm not mistaken didn't he call you a pussy?
As a woman who has one, I'm offended at MHA being called a pussy. It's an insult to pussies. :twisted:
I also don't believe that MHA says "Ladies,If you're raped on Classon and you had on a mini-dress, Whyfi offers you no sympathy. It is at least partially your fault." and does not understand why this pissed off WhyFi. A simple "what would your position be on a woman who was raped while wearing a mini-dress?" would have at least opened a dialogue, which is something MHA constantly claims to be trying to do. Instead, he can now go and (once again) make himself a victim and claim he is being attacked.
On the "Avatar" thread, MHA promises never to talk about Jews again. What can be done to expand those topics to include the rest of the stuff he knows nothing about? He also brings up this thread implying that WhyFi would not have said what he said if he wasn't able to "hide behind" his anonymity. Well, guess what? A bunch of us actually know WhyFi (and many others) in "real life". (disclaimer: I don't fully agree with WhyFi's stance - especially the first iteration of it, but I simply didn't have the energy at the time to discuss it, and he has since expanded on his position,...and that's okay, I'm sure he doesn't always agree with my positions either).
(note to MHA: do not bother PMing me (once again) with your wide-eyed "what did I do?" nonsense. You can say anything you care to say to me right here). -
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What's wrong with YOU PEOPLE? I would never disparage women or womanly anatomy by comparing MHA to either. I was referring to the classic meaning of the word.
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jeffrey wrote: I'm an equal opportunity head-turner, bad-vibe-projector and street-crosser at night. Best to communicate that you will *not* be an easy target so whoever's out there looking for trouble will opt to wait for some other mark.
Wait? You can be proactive when it comes to personal safety?! Can I get an 'Amen!'? -
WhyFi wrote: What's wrong with YOU PEOPLE? I would never disparage women or womanly anatomy by comparing MHA to either. I was referring to the classic meaning of the word.
well, then pls to change to male-centric insult, like "dick" or just call him an "asshole"
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WhyFi wrote: [quote=jeffrey]I'm an equal opportunity head-turner, bad-vibe-projector and street-crosser at night. Best to communicate that you will *not* be an easy target so whoever's out there looking for trouble will opt to wait for some other mark.
Wait? You can be proactive when it comes to personal safety?! Can I get an 'Amen!'?People who get mugged don't watch their back? -
I definitely think there's a lot a person can do to substantially minimize the chances of getting mugged or otherwise attacked.
Definite amen to that.
However, there will always be cases where the attacker will attack nonetheless.
***edited to add: amen break -
^this.
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Or not call him anything at all.
I took by Whyfi's comment that if a woman was raped then he would also think it was her fault, as he mentioned that it was that guy's fault he was mugged. As a person who has been mugged and assaulted a number of times, I thought Whyfi's comment was in poor taste. I didn't call him a name, and he called me a name. My sarcasm was sarcasm, and nothing more. There was no pussyfooting. Of course I could've phrased it differently, but I was extrapolating based on his reasoning. I could have been insincere and phrased it as some sort of objective question, but why do that? The man already said that it was the guy's fault he was mugged. So, it stands to reason that if a woman was raped he would think it's her fault as well, and then to add insult to injury he uses a misogynist's tool in attempt to insult me.
If that deserves to be called a name, if that's where we are going then make room for me as well, as I have a coterie of names I can a number of y'all.
Flexichick, I PM-ed you before because it makes no sense to pollute a thread with interpersonal stuff that other folk may not want to read. I think I have an understanding of the Jewish-Palestinian conflict, and my reluctance to discuss it has more to do with the fear of being called a name there is little defense of, rather than ignorance. It is amazing how you say I don't know anything about it, but you offer no proof to bolster your claim. That's not reasoning; that's just sound.
I don't think what I had to say warranted being called a name by Whyfi, and that's why I wrote what I wrote. Amazing, Flexichick you having no regard for Whyfi's name calling, but rather with the word he used; interesting actually.
What all of this is a testament to is the need for avatars, and how unpopular opinions make one an Untouchable.
I think that the reason you guys are so easy on Whyfi is because YOU KNOW HIM. If he were someone unknown, the consequence of his language would've been checked. I have said far less worse on varying threads, and I got admonished far more for saying it. -
Had I been mugged - or even worse, raped - in this area, I would not have felt comfortable sharing my experience on this thread. I would have expected to be slandered.
I recognize that there are ways to make myself less of a target. That is why I suggested to the original poster that she find a good self-defense class. However, I also know that I can't always control other people's behavior. If they hurt me, I expect that I will NOT be held responsible by my community. The law agrees; rapists are convicted, no matter what the victim was wearing.
Please realize that this is a *personal* issue for a lot of people. Built into the experience of violent crime is a sense of powerlessness, which is the root cause of shame. WiFi, I believe that your strong reaction to such an incident means that you understand that. Telling victims they should have done something different does not make your words true; it only perpetuates shame and keeps them silent. -
MHA wrote:
And you came to a conclusion that was invalid.
Of course I could've phrased it differently, but I was extrapolating based on his reasoning.MHA wrote: I think that the reason you guys are so easy on Whyfi is because YOU KNOW HIM.
Wait..........are we being easy on him because we know him or is he hiding behind his avatar? Which one is it?MHA wrote: I think I have an understanding of the Jewish-Palestinian conflict, and my reluctance to discuss it
Really? Or is it because your remarks were so offensive that you finally realized you should stop putting your foot in your mouth?
If you want to be a pot-stirrer, at least have the balls to own it.....but being a pot-stirrer and then running around and saying that you are being ganged up on is just pathetic. -
Oy Flexichik -- I am not running from anything. I don't see where I put my foot in my mouth regarding my assessment of Inelson's Jewishness and Dershowitz; I am reluctant to discuss this here because it is not relevant to THIS thread. My comment regarding Whyfi is PURPOSELY hyberbole because I was trying to show that HIS argument is invalid.
My point regarding your bias in his favor is because you do know him, and maybe the lack of YOUR anonymity PREVENTS an honest assessment of his commentary. He was wrong; he even retreats to say that maybe he ought not to have phrased it that way; HOW then is it that my own critique of him is wrong?? He admits it was wrong too! This sounds like, 'I don't like MHA (you so obvously don't -- not that like or dislike ought to matter in debate or rational discourse) so I will try to use discourse to make the point that he's wrong because he's a pussy, balls-less', or whatever you have in your mind who I am.
This whole ' you pussy', 'you don't have the balls' shtik is not the sort of discourse I want to really engage in. I do own everything that I say, and where I have felt that I have expressed a too strong opinion, I HAVE backtracked -- check the record. I find Whyfi's comment lacking in tact, and that's all I said. I didn't call him a name, I simply made a comment where I thought one was required. I am pointing out the 'ganged up' rhetoric because you guys apparently don't know how to respond critically without veering into crude ad hominem. You reveal yourselves as -- well --- not willing to engage in true debate/discourse.
My commentary about Judaism, and laterally, Zionism, was relevant when I was making a parallel about Black Nationalism specifically, and Pan Africanism generally. Believe it or not, MHA knows a GREAT deal about Zionism, and draws much inspiration from it.
Your accusation that I don't know anything about it is akin to me saying, 'Flexichik, you know nothing about driving' -- and then making NO point about WHY I think you know nothing about driving! In essence Flexichik, how would you justify your allegation that I know nothing about the Israel-Palestinian Question? What have I said so far that led you to concluding that? You haven't said anything! You can't prove a point simply by reiterating the allegation!
That's not sound reasoning, that's simply noise.
All of this -- including my own initial critical comment about Whyfi -- had nothing to do with the point whether Classon is safe, or not. I will opine here: I don't think Classon is a safe street. I would not recommend one walk on that block late at night. It's quite desolate at times. 'Crazy' Steve Maynard often hung out on that block and has damaged a number of trees around there. In the winter, St. Marks and Prospect Place (especially St. Marks) are very lonely, isolated blocks. -
Even though that was a bit long winded, I found myself in agreement with MHA
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King without a crown wrote: Even though that was a bit long winded, I found myself in agreement with MHA
As soon as I see a post this long from MHA (which is almost always), my mind goes zzzzz zzzzz zzzzzz.. That's just ONE of the problems I have with him (and, yes, I do have a problem with him due to his approach and numerous comments (and, no, I'm not going to list countless examples I have too many other things to do today rather than finding old threads to quote)). -
I am So sorry you have such a short atention span Flexichick. Perhaps a little Ritalin for your brain-ache?
Now THAT"s a legitimate critique. Some have said it, and I can see their point. However, believe it or not, there are others who rather enjoy the lengthy things which I write, and have told me so. From what I've gathered, there is no character limit on these threads, and I do take full advantage of that. I admit that.
Flexichick, it is not my fault that YOUR mind falls asleep when you read my posts. In fact, your seeming inability to read them gives me a better understanding of what type of person I am having discourse with. I for one, do not critique those whom I don't have the brain capacity to understand. I was told some time ago that if you disagree with what you don't understand, that's not opinion, nor is it ignorance, it's STUPIDITY.
Case in point: You state for all the world that you have a bias against me, but AGAIN you don't state why, but instead say, 'I have too many things to do today to JUSTIFY my opinion of him'. That's like me saying, "I don't like Flexichick, I can tell you why, but right now I have better things to do than to do that." ANd, believe me, if I do that, I WANT someone to call me on it. It can only make me a better thinker.
Again, you are stating what you argue is TRUTH, but you present NO EVIDENCE to justify it. That's not rational discourse, that's NOISE. It means NOTHING. It is hard to take you seriously when you state a conclusion but present NO PROOF why such is your belief. In many respects, this is EXACTLY what racism is. It is a statement of hate, or dislike with no rational buttressing thought. It's 'bullshit', in the philosphical definition of the word. Those who side with you do so NOT because they agree with your argument (you make none), they side with you because they like you, but that's not enough here; at least it ought not be enough. And this tete-a-tete between you and I? This is an example of the real world and how it works. Bullshit artists like you get over because you have successfully played the popularity contest game, and you shirk the responsibility of dealing with evidence, rational discourse, and TRUTH; you call other people names with nothing to back it up.
Yeah, I called you a bullshit artist. And I can back it up; my proof? Read this email again. -
Jesus Christ. Racism? Again. Fucking pathetic. Really. And you know damn well what some of my issues are with you - I laid them out for you after you PMed me repeatedly.
And before you go "defining" racism for me, you might consider making sure I'm not a minority. Know your audience, Mr. "My Heart is in Africa". Just sayin' -
Just a tangential comment here:
"@CornelWest wrote: Race has the power to generate levels of polarization that will make it difficult for us to communicate with one another honestly.
5:12 PM Jul 21st via web"@CornelWest wrote: Morally, all racisms are the same.
5:14 PM Jul 21st via web -
King without a crown wrote: Even though that was a bit long winded, I found myself in agreement with MHA
Ditto.
Flexi's tantrums do not impress. -
MHA wrote: You reveal yourselves as -- well --- not willing to engage in true debate/discourse.
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Subject: re: mugging
I was mugged by teenagers earlier in the year: they were soft-shoeing behind me, and it's difficult to see if people are a threat beyond a few yards at night. There was a rash of muggings around the border between Prospect Heights and Park Slope around that time, and for a couple of months afterwards I was scared of walking to and from the neighborhoods after dark. I still am overly wary when the sun goes down.
A few things: one, even if its not rational, the mind remembers a geographic spot where you get hurt, especially by surprise. It triggers a reaction that lingers for a very long time.
Second, just because a random event hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it's someone's fault when it happens to them. It's a fallacy of probability called The Black Swan: it's an outlier that you believe will never happen because it's never happened before. It's superstition located in the brain.
Third: there are gunshots in this neighborhood. A neighbor saw a kid shoot a wall out of boredom with a pistol a month ago. Some kids murdered each other near here, and there was a murder not a couple blocks from where the poster is looking. My entire building was robbed, floor to floor.
I love the neighb so I'm probably sticking around- that being said, it is edgy. -
MHA wrote: I am So sorry you have such a short atention span Flexichick. Perhaps a little Ritalin for your brain-ache?
Now THAT"s a legitimate critique. Some have said it, and I can see their point. However, believe it or not, there are others who rather enjoy the lengthy things which I write, and have told me so. From what I've gathered, there is no character limit on these threads, and I do take full advantage of that. I admit that.
Flexichick, it is not my fault that YOUR mind falls asleep when you read my posts. In fact, your seeming inability to read them gives me a better understanding of what type of person I am having discourse with. I for one, do not critique those whom I don't have the brain capacity to understand. I was told some time ago that if you disagree with what you don't understand, that's not opinion, nor is it ignorance, it's STUPIDITY.
Case in point: You state for all the world that you have a bias against me, but AGAIN you don't state why, but instead say, 'I have too many things to do today to JUSTIFY my opinion of him'. That's like me saying, "I don't like Flexichick, I can tell you why, but right now I have better things to do than to do that." ANd, believe me, if I do that, I WANT someone to call me on it. It can only make me a better thinker.
Again, you are stating what you argue is TRUTH, but you present NO EVIDENCE to justify it. That's not rational discourse, that's NOISE. It means NOTHING. It is hard to take you seriously when you state a conclusion but present NO PROOF why such is your belief. In many respects, this is EXACTLY what racism is. It is a statement of hate, or dislike with no rational buttressing thought. It's 'bullshit', in the philosphical definition of the word. Those who side with you do so NOT because they agree with your argument (you make none), they side with you because they like you, but that's not enough here; at least it ought not be enough. And this tete-a-tete between you and I? This is an example of the real world and how it works. Bullshit artists like you get over because you have successfully played the popularity contest game, and you shirk the responsibility of dealing with evidence, rational discourse, and TRUTH; you call other people names with nothing to back it up.
Yeah, I called you a bullshit artist. And I can back it up; my proof? Read this email again.
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sounds like it's time for flexi and mha to fly down to dc and have a beer with obama.
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