Violence in Bodega on Classon, Near Sterling
I heard that the proprietor of the bodega on Classon near Sterling was severely beaten by a bunch of teenagers. As the story was relayed to me, apparently a young teenaged girl went into the store and shoplifted a bag of potato chips. The person behind the counter -- an old man -- apparently confronted her. There might have been some physical back and forth in his attempt to get the bag from her, and she left the store only to return with a bunch of kids who apparently beat this man very badly. I have not heard anymore about this. If anyone else has, could they add to this?
Comments
-
Haven't heard anything about this--but I'm guessing this girl wasn't exactly a mensa candidate.
-
independent mind wrote: Haven't heard anything about this--but I'm guessing this girl wasn't exactly a mensa candidate.
Bad assumption. -
don't worry, if these "kids" are vicious enough to assualt someone who works at a local business in this way, i'm sure they'll end up in jail soon enough.
assholes. -
nearnostrand wrote: [quote=independent mind]Haven't heard anything about this--but I'm guessing this girl wasn't exactly a mensa candidate.
Bad assumption.
You're right, I'm sure she was just conducting research for her doctoral thesis on the liberation of potato chips. -
and the kids were working on a project on vigilante "justice"
have fun in jail! -
independent mind wrote: [quote=nearnostrand][quote=independent mind]Haven't heard anything about this--but I'm guessing this girl wasn't exactly a mensa candidate.
Bad assumption.
You're right, I'm sure she was just conducting research for her doctoral thesis on the liberation of potato chips.
Man. You've made my day with that
In a serious note, I hope these criminals get what they deserve. And before anyone sheds any tears about these sweet-and-misunderstood thugs,do think about the decent shopkeeper who was only attempting to feed his family honestly. -
nearnostrand wrote: [quote=independent mind]Haven't heard anything about this--but I'm guessing this girl wasn't exactly a mensa candidate.
Bad assumption.
Bad assumption?
Why is that a bad assumption? -
I'm in that store almost daily, and just happened to show up at the tail end of this incident a few weeks ago. There were several of us from the block attempting to convince the owner to go to the hospital, and eventually he agreed. He was injured badly in the back of his head as well as his face. He did in fact "punch" the girl in the face after she attempted to steal. However some say it was an accident while some of the kids involved in the beating/robbery say otherwise. It's well known who the kids are and where they live/hang out. Nothing happened in terms of police response after the initial arrival at the incident. There were no immediate consequences to the 20-30 kids involved either, other than several people spending more time in or around the store with weapons to protect it. Kids involved in the beating/robbery have even returned to the store to purchase things. The owner was working the day after the incident and looked pretty bad for about a week. He's healed up nice though.
-
20 to 30 kids?! Dear god. Poor guy. I seriously hope he has health insurance. And life insurance.
-
.
he'd be better off with a glock.
years ago it would only take 10 KIDS to beat up an old man, i guess they don't make punks like they use to. -
This is what slum kids do when they're not too busy urinating on their neighbors' stoops.
-
I can't imagine how unbelievably chaotic this neighborhood would become if the proprietor had a weapon and used it. Thankfully, that did not happen. 'Slum kids' as Mr. Krohn calls them, become suddenly very self-righteous when they assume the mantle of being wronged. Ironic, but true.
-
.
are you stating that not being allowed to shop lift is being wronged.
a simple yes or no will be appreciated. -
Hamilton wrote: .
Come on now, MHA is talking about a perception.
are you stating that not being allowed to shop lift is being wronged.
a simple yes or no will be appreciated. -
.
to quote the eloquent analogy by MHA
" they become very self righteous when they assume the mantle of being wronged "
wronged , lol
the subject matter of this tread is based on an old man being assaulted by a gang of punks , simply because he refused to allow some one to rob him, thats a reality not a perception.
i also believe the group that assaulted this old man , shouldn't be classified as slum kids , as they are just a group of cowards.
it takes twenty or thirty morons to assault an old man because he defended his business and you wonder why people question, is this a good neighborhood to move into.?
can you or MHA justify their action. -
rezist wrote: I'm in that store almost daily, and just happened to show up at the tail end of this incident a few weeks ago. There were several of us from the block attempting to convince the owner to go to the hospital, and eventually he agreed. He was injured badly in the back of his head as well as his face. He did in fact "punch" the girl in the face after she attempted to steal. However some say it was an accident while some of the kids involved in the beating/robbery say otherwise. It's well known who the kids are and where they live/hang out. Nothing happened in terms of police response after the initial arrival at the incident. There were no immediate consequences to the 20-30 kids involved either, other than several people spending more time in or around the store with weapons to protect it. Kids involved in the beating/robbery have even returned to the store to purchase things. The owner was working the day after the incident and looked pretty bad for about a week. He's healed up nice though.
Thank you for letting us know the gentleman is doing well. I wish him the best and hope for his continued safety,
As for the trash who beat him, I do not care the label they go by or they are known under. These people are scum and deserve whatever karma will come to them for this and - no doubt - other coward and criminal deeds they have or will commit.
It is a disgrace that no one is doing anything to bring some kind of legal retribution for this attack. The lack of such a reaction will just give them more sense of impunity. Next time their victim(s) may not be so lucky as to escape just badly hurt. -
puply, I agree with you that absolutely zero tolerance is warranted here. This is a horrific, disgraceful, and useless act of violence that never should have happened to an innocent man who was just trying to defend his livelihood.
Hamilton, MHA presented us with an assessment of how certain people think and behave in specific circumstances. He never condoned this behavior. In fact, in other threads I've seen him lament this kind of behavior, as well as the violence that permeates Crown Heights.
Now, you're wondering why I would defend something by MHA who, I've gathered, is the scourge for many of Brooklynian's Crown Heights forum.
As recent arrivals to this neighborhood, many of us are trying to make sense out of how people behave here. That's obvious from so many of the posts on this board. Most of us are clueless; we don't get why people behave like they do, so differently than how we and apparently everyone we know grew up. We don't bring the background of having lived in a similar neighborhood or a wide education on the topic of black, urban poverty. My impression is that, on the other hand, because of his background, MHA has been trying to make sense out of what happens in a neighborhood like this - and why - for his entire life (& MHA, I'm sure you'll chime in if I've got it wrong).
Why is it important for us to try to understand what the people around us are thinking, even when their behavior can be intolerable? I submit that:
1) Without this knowledge, we are in danger of slipping into an us/them mentality that solves nothing. Individuals, then, become just "ghetto" instead of people with complex motivations and personal histories, and no one reacts well when they are treated as just another example of how they may appear to someone else, whether that is "white boy," "asian chick," or "ghetto/sagger type".
2) Without this knowledge, we will continue to have no clue how to deal with specific incidents of violence. There are many examples of inner-city organizations that have made consistent headway with the types of violent youth offenders that populate Crown Heights (Omega Boys Club, for example), and it's no surprise that they are run by people who grew up in such neighborhoods and know how people in them think. -
krowonhill wrote: puply, I agree with you that absolutely zero tolerance is warranted here. This is a horrific, disgraceful, and useless act of violence that never should have happened to an innocent man who was just trying to defend his livelihood.
Krowonhill,
Hamilton, MHA presented us with an assessment of how certain people think and behave in specific circumstances. He never condoned this behavior. In fact, in other threads I've seen him lament this kind of behavior, as well as the violence that permeates Crown Heights.
Now, you're wondering why I would defend something by MHA who, I've gathered, is the scourge for many of Brooklynian's Crown Heights forum.
As recent arrivals to this neighborhood, many of us are trying to make sense out of how people behave here. That's obvious from so many of the posts on this board. Most of us are clueless; we don't get why people behave like they do, so differently than how we and apparently everyone we know grew up. We don't bring the background of having lived in a similar neighborhood or a wide education on the topic of black, urban poverty. My impression is that, on the other hand, because of his background, MHA has been trying to make sense out of what happens in a neighborhood like this - and why - for his entire life (& MHA, I'm sure you'll chime in if I've got it wrong).
Why is it important for us to try to understand what the people around us are thinking, even when their behavior can be intolerable? I submit that:
1) Without this knowledge, we are in danger of slipping into an us/them mentality that solves nothing. Individuals, then, become just "ghetto" instead of people with complex motivations and personal histories, and no one reacts well when they are treated as just another example of how they may appear to someone else, whether that is "white boy," "asian chick," or "ghetto/sagger type".
2) Without this knowledge, we will continue to have no clue how to deal with specific incidents of violence. There are many examples of inner-city organizations that have made consistent headway with the types of violent youth offenders that populate Crown Heights (Omega Boys Club, for example), and it's no surprise that they are run by people who grew up in such neighborhoods and know how people in them think.
Every person has the right to try and make sense of the behavior of others as they see fit. If It gives you consolation to try and understand the deeds of the many delinquents who populate this neighborhood by considering their probable difficult childhood/economic circumstances/peer pressure, of any of the other, myriad possibilities that may arise at this respect, please, be my guest.
That said, the fact that you try to rationalize the behavior of others and act accordingly as a measure of safety is, at the very best, wishful thinking.
People who behave the way they did at that poor shopkeeper are simply beyond the realm of being mollified by a different, more understanding attitude. These are criminals. They couldn't care less about the way you or anybody think or behave about them. They are out to fulfill their whims, which most of the time involve illegal activities performed with utmost glee and abandon.
The only way of stopping such mess would be more law enforcement and less accommodation towards criminals and criminal activities. But of course, that is very difficult to achieve, particularly in the climate that we live now, with less money for policing and patrolling and spotty prosecution at best.
As per that shopkeeper, allow me to tell you, I do not think he was only "protecting his livelihood". I am sure this kind of situation was not the first for him, being abused again and again by these useless scum who feel entitled to steal and hurt at will. He probably was tired of it, tired of the whole impunity ambiance that lingers over Crown Heights like a toxic, permanent cloud. So he reacted.
What happened to him thereafter is the perfect example of why the toxic cloud of criminality will not lift anytime soon: his attackers are happily free, still going about their business of damaging, hurting and living their criminal lives. On the meantime, he is learnt the lesson that makes this neighborhood what it is: The scum rules, the scum wins.
So much for understanding, I think. -
While I don't condone what these kids did, I have a really hard time looking at teenagers and writing them off as scum, criminals, etc.
They are CHILDREN. Children who have had no training, children who have been raised with a twisted set of values and morals, but children nonetheless. The attitude that a child with a gun in their hands should automatically be treated as an adult and assumed to have the same level of comprehension puts us in a place where we are writing off entire generations as beyond saving, when these kids may not be.
And if you take this to its logical conclusion, it tells us that children such as those in Afganistan, Chad, Chechnia, and other countries that use child soldiers should be treated as adults, and possibly killed for their roles in wars that they didn't start and don't understand.
What is going on in this neighborhood is a war, and it is just as deadly to the kids that participate in it. But I don't believe that many of them are beyond being saved, and I'd never take the simplistic view that these kids are knowingly and with understanding taking part in the "cloud of criminality". They are simply doing what they have been taught is necessary for survival. Its up to those of us that know better to try and intervene and teach them something else. -
I agree with everything you wrote except:
homeowner wrote:
I'd argue there is alot of fun and new found feelings of power involved. ....this isn't about "survival".
They are simply doing what they have been taught is necessary for survival.
.....its correlated with the environment, and stems from a feeling that their actions have no consequence.
Should they be treated as adults? No.
...should there be consequences through out a child's life to build a sense of moral responsibility? Yup.
Did they likely get such consequences from their parents, teachers, etc? Nope.
....Organizations like Children's Village do a pretty good job reaching kids who participate in gang robberies and other types of criminal activity. Home based MST and short term residential programs seem to work for many.
http://childrensvillage.org/
http://childrensvillage.org/community-mst.htm
...some however, are lost. They fall in love with the thrills of what they can achieve through force, and no one is able to break it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
...it just means that after a while of trying, we end up concluding we can't save "that one". -
homeowner wrote: While I don't condone what these kids did, I have a really hard time looking at teenagers and writing them off as scum, criminals, etc.
Gimme a break. I know a lot of real children, real kids who try very hard to live and thrive around here, despite being intimidated/bothered/abused by the trash and scum who roam around in gangs.
They are CHILDREN. Children who have had no training, children who have been raised with a twisted set of values and morals, but children nonetheless. The attitude that a child with a gun in their hands should automatically be treated as an adult and assumed to have the same level of comprehension puts us in a place where we are writing off entire generations as beyond saving, when these kids may not be.
And if you take this to its logical conclusion, it tells us that children such as those in Afganistan, Chad, Chechnia, and other countries that use child soldiers should be treated as adults, and possibly killed for their roles in wars that they didn't start and don't understand.
What is going on in this neighborhood is a war, and it is just as deadly to the kids that participate in it. But I don't believe that many of them are beyond being saved, and I'd never take the simplistic view that these kids are knowingly and with understanding taking part in the "cloud of criminality". They are simply doing what they have been taught is necessary for survival. Its up to those of us that know better to try and intervene and teach them something else.
While you try so hard to get a justification for these criminals, I care for the others and for their families and for the people who strive to live clean and decent.
I am just so tired to get all kind of bleeding heart comments about the supposed hard conditions that give rise to the criminality. The truth is that you have no idea what type of lives and families do they have.
Comparing these trash to the kids abused in Chechnya, Chad, Afghanistan, is also astonishing. Last time I checked these scumbags are not dying of hunger, or scurrying around while their cities fall, or being victims of ethnic cleansing. Get a grip on reality.
The fact is that thirty of these scumbags congregated to beat an old shopkeeper. In my book, these are criminals, no matter how many days or months they are short of 21. -
homeowner wrote: But I don't believe that many of them are beyond being saved, and I'd never take the simplistic view that these kids are knowingly and with understanding taking part in the "cloud of criminality". They are simply doing what they have been taught is necessary for survival. Its up to those of us that know better to try and intervene and teach them something else.
And sure, I guess most of the 30 in question were taken to beat the shopkeeper under false pretenses, and of course they were unaware that kicking and punching an old man may have some bad impact on his health. Poor little innocent things. -
.
as usual the blame will be passed on to everyone but the thugs.
yes i did say thugs.
to blame teachers is ridiculous, aren't you aware that public schools have metal detectors and the NYPD on premise to protect both teachers and students from unruly CHILDREN.
the question i ask of those who pretend to be compassionate and have concerns for a group of CHILDREN who assault an old man would feel if that was their father or grandfather who could have lost his life over a bag of chips.
I guess thats where the old saying "a Liberal is someone that hasn't been mugged yet " comes from. -
Hamilton,
I assume that your comment about me condoning what was done to the shopkeeper was an attempt at humor. If not, my apologies. It's my sense that the reason that these kids beat him up was because they felt one of their own was wronged in being hit by him -- and I assume the kids who beat him up perceived his hitting the girl was intentional. They likely perceived her punishment did not fit the crime. They likely responded as they did not because she was caught stealing, but because of the physical exchange between them both. What I was attempting to say is that often kids like these ignore the consequences of their actions and perceive them in terms of 'right' and 'wrong' and responded self righteously as a result. This is prejudice on my part, but I presume that these kids think that the shopkeeper was wrong! Prior to gathering into a posse and assaulting him they probably said amongst themselves, "He hit her for stealing a bag of potato chips!"
I am not condoning their behavior. Far from it. Mine was an attempt to understand the reasoning behind their actions. -
Very similar situation happened on Washington last year- wasn't as many kids/thugs, however the bodega guy was in the hospital for WEEKS.
-
MHA wrote: Homeowner,
.
I assume that your comment about me condoning what was done to the shopkeeper was an attempt at humor. If not, my apologies. It's my sense that the reason that these kids beat him up was because they felt one of their own was wronged in being hit by him -- and I assume the kids who beat him up perceived his hitting the girl was intentional. They likely perceived her punishment did not fit the crime. They likely responded as they did not because she was caught stealing, but because of the physical exchange between them both. What I was attempting to say is that often kids like these ignore the consequences of their actions and perceive them in terms of 'right' and 'wrong' and responded self righteously as a result. This is prejudice on my part, but I presume that these kids think that the shopkeeper was wrong! Prior to gathering into a posse and assaulting him they probably said amongst themselves, "He hit her for stealing a bag of potato chips!"
I am not condoning their behavior. Far from it. Mine was an attempt to understand the reasoning behind their actions.
you may not condone their their action , but you definitely seem to side with them by your assumptions .
when your going to report a story which you did ,you should have both sides of it before posting what you feel created the situation.
so i recommend to obtain the truth and not your analytical theories ,when you have a moment why not stop in the store and speak to the owner and hear his side of the story, it could be possible he and his family labor 24 hours a day and are tired of being abused and robbed by a bunch of malcontents, that feel they can steal from him and his family..
this may help you understand both sides of the story and enable you to come to a logical conclusion on why someone defends his business and family only to be assaulted by an unruly group over the theft of a bag of chips.
yes, the american dream, work hard and
be fucked over by a bunch of cowards .
if you do speak to him and i feel you should, would you be kind enough to advise us what nationally he is, i'm sure he's not an african american, because that shit would never happened if he was . -
The impulsivity of this girl is indicated by the very choice of shoplifted goods. To grab a bag of chips (noisy, not really worth the $1.50), is pure impulse. She was not making a calculated choice, she was most likely acting on sheer impulse. So, I suspect that the vigilantism, as mha suggested, was because of another impulse of hers--walking home, she was ashamed at admitting getting caught and rather than admitting to what amounts to an embarrassing and not so flattering story, so she victimized herself and told some story about getting attacked. I think the real villain here is this girl.
While we can't rewind the tape, so to speak, I suspect she rallied all these vile kids, who very probably thought they were acting in some sort of defense of an 'innocent'. (and yes, MHA, is it very ironic that those who habitually rail against the law are often the first to feel the full flush of outrage at being wronged).
Rashomon meets Crown Heights?? -
Hamilton,
Do you think I am sympathetic to the actions of these kids??! Seriously dude, do you really think that's what I am saying here? Dude, I am trying to understand their MOTIVE here, and nothing more. Admittedly, I heard that this happened to that guy, and instead of playing quasi-reporter, I made attempt to see if others who read the Brooklynian could add to the scenario -- and others did, dude. I am in no way condoning or explaining away what happened to this man. I made my sympathies known. What I was explaining is the IRONY of those who do wrong feeling self righteous about what they perceive are wrongs done to them; those who see no relationship between cause and effect.
When I stated above that this is my prejudice -- I am prejudging that these kids (wrongly) believe that they have a reason to act as they did. They so obviously do not have the right to feel self righteous, but often, they do. And that's the irony.
I have no qualms with what the proprietor (supposedly) did. If anything, I have said that I don't know what he did for sure, that, I canot verify that he hit the young lady; that's about the only thing that needs qualification here. And, seriously, race isn't a variable here. It's wrong however you look at it. I agree with you, shopkeepers work incredibly hard. As a descendent of shopkeepers and related to family memebrs who work in the service industry and have been held up at gunpoint, I am painfully aware of what labors they expend for the benefit of their families, and indeed, their communities; this is an incredible wrong done tho this man. Admittedly, I've not gone into the store and heard firsthand what happened, but I don't think I proposed any theory or argument that would require it.
By the way, I misrepresented who I was responding to. I said Homeowner. It should be Hamilton. I can't change it in Hamilton's quote. But I willmake the change in my original posting. Hamilton, maybe you could also do the same thing for contiguity's sake. -
Puply,
I just saw your comments comparing the lives of the so-called 'impoverished' kids around here to the lives of children who lives far more impoverished lives in other countries; I believe you named Chechnya, and Afghanistan amongst others. I wholeheartedly agree. The lives of children in so-called Third World (and Fourth World) countries are foar worse than the kids here. Having been a citizen of one such country, and having visited others far poorer than the one I grew up in, I gotta say how right you are. These kids have it better than most, which makes the crap that many of them do that much more deplorable. But despite my anger about the situation, I still think it's important that we try to be mindful of our anger and try to dispassionately understand why these act in this fashion. It just doesn't make sense to me. I really want to know why they act this way. And maybe the answer IS because they are 'bums', or 'scumbags', or some other pejorative; yet, that's anger talking -- and justly so. But, I can't help but believe that there has to be more to it than just moral lacking. How was this moral lacking created? What are the 'mechanics' behind this? What makes a child think they can gang up and beat an old man senseless? Where does that come from? I AM angry, but I am dumbfounded too. Aren't you? -
maybe you should read what you post before you press the enter button, it may prevent you from trying to deny what you stated, here again, is blame someone else for your warped excuses.
instead of being evasive go to the bodega and speak to the owner, listen to his version and pls let me know if he is an african american, or is that to much to ask, but knowing you, you'll try to dance away from this request.
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds