Whats up with bike riders on Vanderbilt ave???
Comments
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King without a crown wrote: I'm not sure why its so difficult for some people to stay on topic. The purpose for this thread is to bring attention to something that I've observed several times throughout the City. I repeat, this is not a BIKE VS. CAR debate.
Let me try to help you out, KWAC. Your observation that cyclists break lots of rules is essentially meaningless without considering the context of what else is happening on New York City streets. Cyclists break lots of rules compared to what?
If we had good data on this -- and unfortunately the city doesn't -- we would almost certainly find that cyclists break the rules far less than NYC pedestrians who are renowned worldwide for their "jaywalking." (I was once accused of "walking like a New Yorker" in Berlin by a German citizen stunned at my casual blasting through a "don't walk" signal). We know that cyclist rule-breaking is far less deadly and harmful than motorist rule-breaking. In other words, not all rule-breaking is equal. And, finally, most of the rules, as we know them here in NYC, were designed over a period of 75 years to accommodate the vast needs and requirements of motor vehicles. Only in the last few years have the rules and the street designs begun to catch up to the needs of people who want to transport themselves by bike in NYC.
If you simply want to have a discussion thread to bitch about horrible, rule-breaking cyclists, that's fine. But if you want to have a productive discussion then these issues are very much on topic. -
Union Street,
Paraderest also illustrates your point nicely. By inference, it is clear that NYC has so many people breaking laws that he can choose which set of lawbreakers to go after on a given night.
....if only the NYPD could always publish a list of the offenses that they were going to be enforcing on a given night. I could know which nights to do what. That would be excellent. -
I would suggest that some of the cars you see double parked on Vanderbilt are making deliveries or unloading goods for the local stores. Many of the non-chain stores do not have large bulk deliveries and instead rely on owners and small operators to provide goods and equipment. Even though Vandy is a commercial strip, with the exception of the couple of spaces in front of the Met, there is no reserved commercial parking on any block.
I'm sure if you asked any of the bar or restaurant owners they'd share that often received deliveries in smaller, non commericial vehicles. -
Can we apply the same logic of "cars do worse things so I can do what I wish on my bike" to other issues such as noise, littering, drug use, and pissing on somebody's building?
There are people using far worse drugs than marijuana so that means I can smoke weed...There are people illegaly dumping used tires on the sidewalks so I can just throw my coffee cup on the sidewalk...There are people pissing on stoops so I can piss behind this dumpster...There are construction sites making terrible noise late at night so I can play my samba music as loud as I wish.
If the police officers wrote summonses for every violation they observed it would be impossible to do anything other than write summonses. There are other issues to take into account such as a lack of training for officers in the use of such devices as sound meters and radar guns, a lack of functioning devices such as sound meters and radar guns, and the officer's ability to articulate the offense in court in order to gain a conviction. -
ParadeRest wrote: Can we apply the same logic of "cars do worse things so I can do what I wish on my bike" to other issues such as noise, littering, drug use, and pissing on somebody's building?
There are a zillion laws on the books in New York City. The police are constantly deciding which ones to enforce, where, and how. Communities are constantly pushing their police to enforce one set of laws over another.
My point is that the illegal stuff that motor vehicles do on NYC streets is generally far more dangerous, destructive and costly than the illegal stuff that bikes and peds do on NYC streets. So, I'd like to see the police enforce more against dangerous motorist behavior and less against people like my friend Gail who got a ticket for briefly biking on the sidewalk while taking her 5-year-old to school on a street that she felt was too dangerous for biking with a kid. Last year biking on the sidewalk was one of the most heavily summonsed offenses in NYC. That strikes me as ridiculous.
That being said, I'd also very much like to see the police handing out summonses to the cyclists who come screaming down the Brooklyn Bridge bike/ped path at 25 mph screaming at tourists to get out of their way. Those guys are a menace and ought to be stopped. -
Better yet, lets ban bikes from the Brooklyn Bridge entirely.
....Bikes can have the Manhattan Bridge, and ban pedestrians.
It's time the city use it's assets more wisely.
....additional bike lanes have been good for the city. Now lets make sure the tourists continue to like our city by letting them lesiurely stroll the Broklyn Bridge.
(P.S. While were at it, let's finally Ban Cars for Prospect and Central Park) -
whynot_31 wrote: Better yet, lets ban bikes from the Brooklyn Bridge entirely.
I gave up riding on the Brooklyn bridge between 10am - 8pm during the warmer months a long time ago.
....Bikes can have the Manhattan Bridge, and ban pedestrians.
Unfortunately, the Manhattan Bridge is a lot less convenient for a lot of people.
First, the access routes to the MB are dangerous as hell. If you ride down Jay Street, you're riding into the MB off-ramp, and negotiating a quick turn while cars, vans, and trucks are all trying to beat the traffic light & get on the BQE.
Second, If you're trying to get to the West Side of Manhattan (say, for example, to go up Hudson St, or the West Side Greenway), the Manhattan Bridge is inconvenient as hell. It provides no easy way to access those paths - believe me, I've tried to find a useful route, and they all suck.
In my dreams, I have fantasies of the city finding a way to either expand the ped/bike roadway on the Brooklyn Bridge, or allocating a lane in the off-peak direction for bicycle use, thereby solving the problem.
But banning bicycle use on the Brooklyn Bridge will not be received well. Too many people use it every single day. -
Worse, the Manhattan Bridge is about to see major kinks put in the bicycle access points, as it's about to undergo *ANOTHER* round of renovations:
http://www.streetsblog.org/2010/07/06/manhattan-bridge-rehab-plans-pose-challenges-for-bike-ped-safety/ -
When one compares the number of peds vs the number of bikers on BB, one finds there are far more peds.
....the bikes just need more space than peds to move the same number of people.
I'd improve access in and around the Manhattan Bridge for the bikers.
...I'd gentify the hell out of both ends of the Brooklyn Bridge for the pedistrian tourist$. -
whynot_31 wrote: When one compares the number of peds vs the number of bikers on BB, one finds there are far more peds.
So both bikes & pedestrians are far more space-efficient than cars (especially since almost everyone drives alone), how about sacrificing a lane of car traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge?
....the bikes just need more space than peds to move the same number of people.
I'd improve access in and around the Manhattan Bridge for the bikers.
...I'd gentify the hell out of both ends of the Brooklyn Bridge for the pedistrian tourist$.
Even if access on both ends of the MB was improved, it doesn't solve the problem of how riders get from the MB to the West Side - believe me, it's not easy - there's no single direct road that does it, and cutting through the narrow streets Chinatown, Little Italy, and Soho isn't for the faint of heart. Especially during business hours when there are delivery vehicles parked illegally all over the place. -
swngnmonk wrote: So both bikes & pedestrians are far more space-efficient than cars (especially since almost everyone drives alone), how about sacrificing a lane of car traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge.
I'd rather see the city redesign and rebuild the Brooklyn Bridge promenade -- there's plenty of space over both roadbeds to include bike paths going in both directions. But, until then, I love the idea of dedicating a lane of roadbed in the off-peak direction for bikes. In the morning, the Brooklyn-bound side of the bridge could have a lane for bikes. Flip it in the evening. Why not try it out and see if it works? It costs almost nothing. -
Union Street wrote: [quote=citymouse]Automobiles allow a lot of people in NYC and elsewhere to maintain independence and mobility. They allow ambulances to get around rapidly. The car makes it possible for my wheelchair-using best friend to get from A to B
Wow. Do you really believe this nonsense?
Automobiles are IN THE WAY of people's independence and mobility in New York City. First off, the vast majority of New Yorkers do not own cars. Second, New York City ambulances aren't stuck in traffic behind rows of street-clogging bicycles. Our streets are gridlocked and immobilized by motor vehicles, many of which are humongous, driven by a single passenger and making a trip that could very easily be taken on transit, or by bike or by foot if we did a better job of accommodating those modes.
There are lots and lots of ways to accommodate disabled people but encouraging private automobile use in the urban core is absolutely not one of them. Go to Copenhagen and Amsterdam, the world's two least car-dependent cities and, not coincidentally, you'll find that these are two of the most disabled-friendly cities as well.
Go to Copenhagen and Amsterdam and you'll find two minimally car-dependent cities that have already implemented larger-scale infrastructural & transit changes that enable disabled access.
Go to NYC RIGHT NOW where disabled people need to get around RIGHT NOW and... you'll find that a motor vehicle is frequently the best overall way to get around RIGHT NOW. As I pointed out, does not need to be a privately owned motor vehicle, but can hypothetically be part of a larger public/municipal system. Unfortunately the services we have are stretched thin and unreliable, and the public transit basically sucks - so many times, he is driven right by, by bus drivers who do not want to deal with a wheelie. Plus there are the angry comments, mutters, etc. from other passengers who get annoyed by the extra time it takes, which is psychologically tiring even if it isn't literally physically preventive. There are like 5 accessible subway stations total and have you ever smelled those elevators?
Given that I spend a substantial amount of time with, and going around NYC with, a wheelchair user, I am pretty familiar with this topic. You kind of caught yourself here: "Our streets are gridlocked and immobilized by motor vehicles, many of which are humongous, driven by a single passenger and making a trip that could very easily be taken on transit, or by bike or by foot if we did a better job of accommodating those modes." Yeah, it's really nice to take transit, bike and foot.. if you are physically able to travel by transit, bike, or foot. -
Citymouse,
Cyclists vs. Disabled and elderly people is a false choice. You're creating a conflict where none exists. Cities that are friendly to pedestrians, cyclists and transit users are generally the most accessible cities for the disabled and eldeerly as well. Obviously, NYC has a lot of work to do in this realm. We have a subway system that we built about 90 years before disabled access laws were written.
I'm not sure if you're an activist in the realm of disabled access politics but if you think it's a good idea to turn it into a fight between disabled access vs. livable streets, that's not very smart strategy. The "anti-car, pro-bike" people you complain about are probably among your best allies. I know a lot of bike advocates who have also worked on pushing the MTA to add elevators to inaccessible stations and making streets around schools and senior homes safer for pedestrians.
Finally, if you really want to throw around accusations of "able-ism," I think you really sell disabled people and the elderly short when you assume that it is impossible for them to ride a bike for transportation or recreation.
http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/28/dutch-wheelchair
http://www.americanprofile.com/heroes/article/24867.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/health/01parkinsons.html -
Cops Cracking Down on Cyclist Scofflaws on Upper East SideBike riders: Fleshy impediments to snarled traffic, or existential threat to civilization? Find out by tuning in every night this week to CBS2 for their segment "Bike Bedlam," about "the bicycle bullies and the bike lane backlash, and why the city keeps giving bikers MORE freedom!" Also, are bike riders giving you brain cancer? Tune in at 11! Here's a taste of what awaits. "Anarchy in the streets!":
But on the Upper East Side the NYPD isn't accepting anarchy, and the Post reports that cops issued 360 summonses to cyclists from July 8th to August 8th, or about 11 a day. (During the previous 30-day period, cops issued 240 summonses, or about eight a day.) The summonses range from riding on the sidewalk to disobeying traffic signals. "The elderly pedestrians feel like they are taking their lives in their hands, even when they have a green light," an unidentified police official tells the tabloid. But not everyone is against the anarchists. One East Village sympathizer says, "I feel bad for these delivery guys. Would you want to ride in the street with these crazy cabs?"
By John Del Signore in News on August 16, 2010 4:59 PM 3 Comments 0 Likes Likes 237 -
The city does need $
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I bike all over the city and try to be considerate and respectful toward pedestrians. Every accident I've ever had was the direct result of reckless motorists jumping red lights or cutting into the bike lane.
That aside, I've noticed a new group of PH bikers who are young and tend to ride wearing headphones.that alone is dangerous for everyone. -
As an almost full-time pedestrian I have only 2 requests for cyclists:
1) Stay off the damned sidewalks if you're an adult. Granted, this is 50% delivery guys, but I see "real" cyclists doing it on occasion.
2) Don't put it all on me. When you're about run that red light, consider the situation; is there a crosswalk? Are you making any noise that would alert me to your presence? Is there, say, a van or large SUV that might force me out into the street a bit to check for traffic but obscure me before that (that's the big one)? It's always fun getting buzzed by someone being careless doing what they shouldn't be doing and then being cursed at like I'm the idiot. PPW was the worst for this, but has improved since the change. -
Yesterday, stepping out of Gorilla (5th Ave, Slope), I heard the obnoxious tweeting of a referees whistle - it was, of course, being blown by a cyclist and being directed at peds crossing the street in front of him... one problem - he didn't have the light - they did. About 80% of my commuting miles are done on my bike, but I have no sympathy for assholes like this - I yelled at him, "you're running a fucking red!" Don't think he heard me, don't think that he would have cared, even if he had. I'm telling you, fellow non-idiot cyclists, we need to take the time to police our own 'specially while riding, 'cause idiot cyclist have deaf ears when it comes to advice from anyone not on two wheels.
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Why Do New Yorkers Hate Cyclists?
Why can't we be friends? (Flickr user istolethetv)Pedestrians and drivers in this city have hated each other for years, but it seems that the city's bicyclists get the brunt of hatred from both worlds. In "A unified theory of New York biking," Reuters blogger Felix Salmon theorizes that cyclists get such hatred because, though they are vehicles, they are treated as pedestrians. But that may be both the bikers' and the drivers' faults.
Salmon explains the standard "pedestrian-motorist encounter," in which both parties must keep to their clearly defined paths, and "When they do interact, pedestrians take advantage of the rules of the road: a red light, for instance, means that the cars have to stop, so pedestrians can cross against them. Pedestrians trust the motorists to follow the rules, and most of the time that’s what happens." However, when bikes are thrown into the mix, things get complicated. He writes:
Bikes can and should behave much more like cars than pedestrians. They should ride on the road, not the sidewalk. They should stop at lights, and pedestrians should be able to trust them to do so. They should use lights at night. And — of course, duh — they should ride in the right direction on one-way streets. None of this is a question of being polite; it’s the law. But in stark contrast to motorists, nearly all of whom follow nearly all the rules, most cyclists seem to treat the rules of the road as strictly optional. They’re still in the human-powered mindset of pedestrians, who feel pretty much completely unconstrained by rules.
Of course, it's not just the bikers who break the rules. Cars use bike lanes as parking spots or left-turn lanes and pedestrians jaywalk, but Salmon reminds New Yorkers, "Bicyclists aren’t like pedestrians: we’re much faster, we can’t stop quickly, we can’t navigate as adroitly, and it takes a lot of effort to slow down and speed up again, compared to the effort expended in just moving at a constant velocity." However, there is something bikers could do to calm the waters. According to statistics in Jeff Mapes’s book Pedaling Revolution, "as many as a third of all bike accidents involved simply riding against the flow of traffic." Stick to your lanes, and maybe we can all be friends one day. Or not. -
You should really note that you took that from Gothamist:
http://gothamist.com/2010/09/05/why_do_new_yorkers_hate_cyclists.php -
Is the other shoe about to drop?
NYT: States’ Lawmakers Turn Attention to the Dangers of Distracted Pedestrians
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The city and traffic has already beeb destroyed along with millions that could have been used for schools and important things to create these stupid bikelanes and it really pisses me off that I barely see anyone riding in them. I think they should get expensive tickets just like drivers.
When I was growing up no such thing as a bikelane existed and we rode all over, borough to borough, up and down with no problems. We just kept to the side and kept our heads up for cars coming. IMO if you cant do that you have no business riding a bike through NYC!
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lol Nofay why would you think that anywhere in this city common sense would prevail? I totally agree with your comments and would like to add we were mindful of the pedestrians too...
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The city traffic was "destroyed" by bike lanes... :roll: Yeah, because traffic flowed so smoothly before - it would be much better if the hundreds of thousands of city cyclists would just drive, instead. Perfect common sense.
Why don't you two go stand on your lawns, shaking your fists at the whippersnappers and reminisce about the good ol' days that only exist in your faulty memories?
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Because of the bike lanes, now where there used to be 3 lanes there are only 2. Where there used to be 2 lanes there are only 1. Where you used to just be able to make a turn you now have to go through a wierd slanty thing and wait at a light and the cars get backed up and block one of the lanes. Did I mention that there are cars parked in the middle of the street? Makes no sense whatsoever.
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Wow - you really have got it all figured out! City Planning, DoT and TA should contact you for future consultations - the city traffic will be all 'smooth operator' before you know it! I'll be back in a bit - I'm going to list my bike on craigslist and I'm going to check out a few SUVs online.
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Whatever. It is much worse now not better.
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And your support for that claim? And your evidence that any decline is attributable to bicyclists/bicycle lanes?
Between this and the 'back in the day,' post about Tavern on Dean, you obviously look back fondly on your days growing up and you mistake your youthful, carefree days with "better" times.
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While you guys were duking it out in front of your computer screens, last Tuesday night the Transportation Committee of CB 8 was hearing a proposal by DOT to create a bike lane on Washington Avenue bet. EPW and Atlantic. Also to put neckdowns and bollards on Washington Ave and Atlantic to make this dangerous intersection more pedestrian friendly.
It happens every month on the 4th Tuesday of the month at 7 PM at the Haitian American Daycare Center on Bedford Ave bet. St. Johns Pl and Lincoln Place.
The full Board meets this month at the Center for Nursing and Rehab on Feb. 10th at 7 PM at the Center for Nursing and Rehab on Classon bet. Park and Prospect.
And as far as I'm concerned KWAC and ParadeRest nesd to get on their bikes. The world looks a lot different from the seat of a bike. And there'd be a lot less obesity and global warming if everyone else rode their bikes as well.
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Everything! They don't make it like they used to, amIright?
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