Starbucks on Franklin Ave?

For many, it is now.

...out of greed or fear, they will leave you here when (and if) times get bad again.

P.S. Others will leave merely because they get old and need a retirement home...

chloeroyale, you don't know anything about me and what I have or have not seen.

Nothing is a concrete plan, not even owning outright. I also never said I planned on being here forever, just that getting into rent stabilized or owning is the best way to be able to afford a rapidly changing neighborhood as long as possible.

Why I really don't think about how much my property is worth and I'm being honest with u I thank God for my health everyday and that's what's important to me along with helping those I can . I'm not that kind if investor I'm sorry but that's how I feel.

chloe-

There is no need to be sorry.

Long term residents that are not exclusively motivated by money keep neighborhoods stable and safe. They know the history of the 'hood, and how to get things done with the other long timers.

Those connections and long time local friends can't easily be assigned a dollar value. Cherish them.

tatinbk wrote: getting into rent stabilized or owning is the best way to be able to afford a rapidly changing neighborhood as long as possible.

tate-

Another technique to avoid having to move so often is to move to an area which seems pretty immune to neighborhood change. Look for a stable area, with lots of long time, residents.

This way, you can avoid the positives and negatives of an "improving" neighborhood: higher food prices, lower crime, cleaner streets, higher rent, etc.

This way, you can avoid the positives and negatives of a "declining" neighborhood: more crime, few vegetables in local stores, dirty streets, poorly maintained building etc.

....Bensonhurst and Sunset Park, and Bay Ridge come to mind as stable.

Being smug is fun, but nobody seems to like smug people. That said, good luck on jumping those income brackets.

I'm regularly in the City College area (137th St) and have been amazed at the changes in Hamilton Heights (formerly known as West Harlem).

In addition to the stuff I mention above, I can now see kids playing outside again.

Although I don't partake, I feel my ability to score heroin on the street has decreased.

Go one why not and we all know he or she is smug ! What a turn off

It's not Starbucks, but the new coffee place on Park Place is open (sorry if someone already posted this and I just can't find it). Got some photos and a little report over on ILFA (ILFA), but the relevant info is that it's a small indoor space with a lot of outdoor space, close to the shuttle stop, with a case full of organic chocolates. I'm thinking the location and the outdoor space (once spring and summer roll around, or even once it gets back to being 55 degrees in January) will help them capture some market share.

So many coffee shops, not a single bagel store on Franklin b/w eastern and atlantic! Holding out that this will become a reality eventually.

What do you mean no bagel store? What about the Bean place? (I forget the exact name now, the one by Bob and Betty's)

Interesting to see the talk of a Starbucks coming.

Two things to consider. Firstly, it is a sign that the neighborhood has arrived in a strangely symbolic way. This is both good and bad.

Second, Starbucks decides if they want to come but the locals decide if they want to go. They will fund the store for 18 to 30 months as they need stores to lose money for tax purposes but sooner or later, they will close up shop and do what is called a consolidation. Personally, I would go to the mom end pop shops first.

If I still lived on Franklin Avenue, I would not want a Starbucks. I do not hate them but they do nothing for the neighborhood and if you do nothing for the neighborhood, it is best if you do it elsewhere.

(Please, please please, do not tell me they create jobs. Please do not tell me they save wales. Please do not tell me they sell chocolate made of bamboo in rain forests. Please, see then for what they are.)

ehgee said:

Starbucks provides a valuable place to urinate without spending money.

Who can argue with that?

mr. met said:

what does Breueklen or Zelda or Pulp and Bean do for the neighborhood that Starbucks wouldn't?

Reasonable question and I can write about my thoughts on it for days on end but suffice to say that Breueklen or Zelda or Pulp and Bean are owned by small time operators. Families and neighbors and friends who are invested in the neighborhood.

Starbucks is monolithic and like Walmart, pushed out the small business people. Small shops, also known as Mom and Pop shops allow folks to work for themselves as opposed to working for a large company. As such, they call the shots, make the decisions and live or die based on their way of making it happen as opposed to being a pawn in a very large organization.

If mom and pop shops disappear, we will lose a great deal. Independence, diversity, a bit of the American dream and the wonderful belief that a person with a vision can chart their own course; live their life on their terms. This is a lot to lose. Far more then just a cup of coffee.

I don't know if you can blame that on the new blood, so much as the economic factors that are causing franchises to thrive, and changes in the nature of immigration.

To put it in rural terms: It does seem that throughout the country we are losing the "Small town main street" (urban equivalent: diverse shopping avenue) in favor of far away suburban style malls (urban equiv: Atlantic Center or Gateway Mall).

Likewise, as immigration changes from mass events from select countries over a long period of time TO a phenomena that is more slow trickles of people from all over the world, the ethnic enclaves also are being affected.

Mrs. Whynot wrote about that somewhat recently:

By way of disclosure, I was white and middle class as a child (still am though not a child). I grew up in a neighborhood that was more diverse (racially, economically) than most in NYC - though is not now. My childhood took place in the 1970s.

I am all for a diversity of places to shop. I don't have anything against a 99 cent store, but don't desire another one. And largely my wish list of stores mimics the type of places that I remember shopping at as a kid.

There was Williams Bar-B-Que chicken, Murray's appetizing shop, Morris Brothers children's clothing store, Rosen Brothers meat store, the Towne Shop (when shopping for clothes with Mom), Party Cake and Lichtmans bakeries, West Side Camera and West Side Judaica. There were a couple of restaurants Chun-Cha-Fu and Taj Mahal are the only ones I can name though there was also a steak shop. There was a Five-and-Dime (Woolworths). There were a couple of bookstores, though the one I went to most was around the corner from the New Yorker Movie theater. A couple of places that I can't name anymore I can still remember the names of the owners/people behind the counter - the pet shop was owned by Tom and later his daughter Kate, the toy store by Jim. And there were a couple of supermarkets - Red Apple, Daitch (sp?) and Key Food and a bank - Dime. There were also a lot of places we did not shop.

What strikes me about the list is that I can name places and workers who I haven't seen in decades. It is also diverse (I've not named a single place more than four blocks from the apartment in which I grew up) and did not involve chain stores for the most part.

But here is one issue with the list, almost none of the places still exist. They have been replaced by up-scale chains. And truthfully, that neighborhood needs another bank or Banana Republic about as much as Nostrand needs another 99 cent store. (Again just my opinion.)

A desire for shopping diversity hits up against two factors that did not exist back in days of my childhood - the big box (Target) and the category killer (Toys-R-Us). I don't know if my parents would have gone to Morris Brothers for my clothing if a Target had existed. And for low-income people, having the choice of lower-cost places to shop, both in the neighborhood and outside of it, is imperative. But for those of us who can afford it, there is a lot to be said for the personal service at Sisters rather than the discount at Lowes.

This brings up my question - one that I think is at the heart of redacted and many other of the people posting.

How do we foster diverse economic development? One glimmer of hope is that the populace at all economic brackets in Brooklyn knows how to eat at non-chain restaurants. How do we similarly encourage shopping for everything else in the same way? And trust me, I don't have the answer to this.

P.S. Mrs Whynot is not her actual name. When we got married she kept her last name.... and prefers Ms.

She only uses Mrs. Whynot for fun.