prospect park is not the tour de France
Comments
-
WhyFi wrote: So... are you the one carrying the pole or the one sitting in the basket? :?
I'm actually the guy in the distance at the top left of the picture. -
Carnivore wrote: [quote=WhyFi]So... are you the one carrying the pole or the one sitting in the basket? :?
I'm actually the guy in the distance at the top left of the picture.
You should NOT be wearing pants that tight... -
and i was sure i spoted him as the kid in the basket!!!
-
steve wrote: It seems pretty obvious to me that the bicyclists here have no interest in actually obeying the law, either by stopping at a light or yielding to a pedestrian in the crosswalk. This conversation reminds me of the way some bicyclists act whenever they feel inconvenienced during critical mass or on the bridges, like a bunch of spoiled children.
Let's be honest. No one here obeys the laws. I jay walk, cross between streets, I make U-turns where I'm not supposed to, and certainly if I could go over 15mph on my bike in the park I would (although I can hit a mean 27mph going down the hill between PPSW circle and CIA circle) and I pass through red lights on my bike. However, I am also very aware of my surroundings and I also know that if I get caught doing any of these things then tough luck on me. I know that there are pedestrians in the park and I keep a sharp eye out. Not so much for courtesy (except for kids and old people) but because I don't want to get into an accident and I know I will lose if I smack into someone. This is how the law is set up. Even though I believe it's a matter of common sense to be aware of your surroundings and to use caution you have to think in terms of the other person not doing so. I don't see all cyclists being a road hazard. I see a alot but not all. Some fly by bike by only inches out of nowhere without any kind of warning. Pretty dangerous if I have to swerve to avoid someone/thing or my bike drifts over for whatever reason. I also see pedestrians doing some pretty stupid things such as bolting in front me without looking, or playing chicken, and some will do this with their kids in tow, or walking their dogs with an endless supply of fishing line, or they'll actually be the ones in packs hogging up most of the road. This is why both sides of the coin need to keep vigilant, because the other side won't. As I said before, the City should set up "bikers only" parks throughout the boroughs but that is a pipe dream. So in the mean time I guess we all have to use some courtesy and common sense. If we can't then hey that's okay because I get to read more anti-biking/pedestrian messages like these. And they are amusing. -
Carnivore wrote: I know. I didn't have a problem with the cyclists before (sometimes I'm one of them), but now I want to go take a walk to the park and assert my right to the crosswalk.
this is pure spite. yes, you have your right. but think of all of the situations where you defer your rights out of common courtesy without thinking twice.
cycling is a legit activity and there is only one road in the park to do it. would you walk right through a volleyball or soccer game? there is no difference between the courtesy of walking around someone's game and pausing to let a cyclist continue by.
all cyclists are also pedestrians, and so we know what we are asking for. i walk in the park all the time and don't mind taking care when crossing the road. but not all pedestrians are cyclists and understand what it takes to get a good workout on a bike, and the challenge and fear of navigating the many inattentive people on the road. -
* If there is no crosswalk, a pedestrian must yield the right-of-way to all vehicles on the roadway (Sec. 1152).
WOW that changes everything. KMom, you were in the wrong afterall. (still, I wouldn't run you over for it). -
Rose wrote: [quote=steve]It seems pretty obvious to me that the bicyclists here have no interest in actually obeying the law, either by stopping at a light or yielding to a pedestrian in the crosswalk. This conversation reminds me of the way some bicyclists act whenever they feel inconvenienced during critical mass or on the bridges, like a bunch of spoiled children.
The cyclists really haven't done themselves any favors with their posts on this thread.
Oh? Why don't 'cha read mine then? I could say the same for the PEDs. -
kosherdave wrote: [quote=Rose][quote=steve]It seems pretty obvious to me that the bicyclists here have no interest in actually obeying the law, either by stopping at a light or yielding to a pedestrian in the crosswalk. This conversation reminds me of the way some bicyclists act whenever they feel inconvenienced during critical mass or on the bridges, like a bunch of spoiled children.
The cyclists really haven't done themselves any favors with their posts on this thread.
Oh? Why don't 'cha read mine then? I could say the same for the PEDs.
Yes, but some of the cyclists (mostly anonymous ones) are acting like petulant louts, refusing to recognize that they are asking the pedestrians to cede their legal right, instead insulting them and claiming this as an entitlement. -
kosherdave wrote:
Maybe..... Not according to Prospect park alliance. I should have used a crosswalk, but once in the road.....I had the right of way. But as I explained I looked left and right before proceeding and the road was clear. I am pretty considerate with my double stroller and I don't want my kids injured by bicyclists or park vehicles. ALSO....I crossed in the same spot today and yes, that hill by the Vanderbilt playground is almost a "blind" hill IF the cyclists are going very fast. Not if they are going at a normal speed.* If there is no crosswalk, a pedestrian must yield the right-of-way to all vehicles on the roadway (Sec. 1152).
WOW that changes everything. KMom, you were in the wrong afterall. (still, I wouldn't run you over for it).
Wow did I open up a can of worms with this topic. Maybe I should become a troll? -
Carnivore wrote: Yes, but some of the cyclists (mostly anonymous ones) are acting like petulant louts, refusing to recognize that they are asking the pedestrians to cede their legal right, instead insulting them and claiming this as an entitlement.
this is a statement of entitlement if i ever saw one. stop citing the law, and talk some common sense. and if you read above, you see that i clearly acknowledged that i am asking pedestrians to cede their right.
you are the obstinate one, making no effort to understand the cyclists' point of view. -
Anonymous wrote: this is a statement of entitlement if i ever saw one. stop citing the law, and talk some common sense. and if you read above, you see that i clearly acknowledged that i am asking pedestrians to cede their right. you are the obstinate one, making no effort to understand the cyclists' point of view.
Of course it's a statement of entitlement, because pedestrians are legally entitled to cross at a crosswalk! However, your entitlement exists only in your own mind. And you aren't asking, you're demanding. Which is a bad approach when you're legally in the wrong.
If you read my posts above, you would see that I am also a cyclist at times, so your last point makes no sense at all. -
This is beyond stupid. As a matter of course, if you have the law on your side, and the peds do, the bicyclists are wrong, and have to stop at lights and crosswalks, and obey the posted speed limit. The fact that this interferes with their workout is meaningless.
A bicycle, like it or not, is a vehicle, and is subject to the same rules of the road, as any other. Just because the road is in a city park does not mean yopur workout is any more precious than if it were on a street. Other than the Queens Velodrome, nothing exists in New York that allows you an ideal workout? Deal with it, living in New York means you pay a similar price, sooner or later. If you are that serious about cycling, to the point that you feel it is neccesary to break several laws, and potentially endanger pedestrians, you should consider going somewhere more conducive to your sport. -
steve wrote: This is beyond stupid. As a matter of course, if you have the law on your side, and the peds do, the bicyclists are wrong, and have to stop at lights and crosswalks, and obey the posted speed limit. The fact that this interferes with their workout is meaningless.
absolutely inane. what a wonderful world it would be if we all asserted our rights and forced others to follow the law all the time. no more giving up seats on the subway for old ladies, etc.
again, please consider the assymetry of the imposition. crossing the road carefully is of minimal imposition on the pedestrian. avoiding all those that dont cross carefully is a major imposition on the cyclist. -
Anonymous wrote: absolutely inane. what a wonderful world it would be if we all asserted our rights and forced others to follow the law all the time. no more giving up seats on the subway for old ladies, etc.
Now you're likening yourself to an old lady needing a seat on a bus? Dude, you just make yourself look better and better. -
Now that the TdF is about to begin, I bet you see a LOT more cyclists in the park!! Everyone look both ways!
-
TdF ain't gonna happen if the commission and the Euro cops keep busting everyone.
-
Why should we expect 100% of cyclists to ride responsibly when so many pedestrians are so careless and inconsiderate? Just because you may regularly see *some* people on a bike riding like jerks doesn't mean that every cyclist is a jerk. Just because you may see one irresponsible parent letting his/her children play kickball unsupervised on the park road doesn't mean that every parent in the park is irresponsible. Everybody should just chill out and stop hurling insults. So many of you are idiots spewing nonsense:-) I can't believe I wasted my time reading your posts. Relax and enjoy the park.
-
Rascalnikov wrote: Why should we expect 100% of cyclists to ride responsibly when so many pedestrians are so careless and inconsiderate? Just because you may regularly see *some* people on a bike riding like jerks doesn't mean that every cyclist is a jerk. Just because you may see one irresponsible parent letting his/her children play kickball unsupervised on the park road doesn't mean that every parent in the park is irresponsible. Everybody should just chill out and stop hurling insults. So many of you are idiots spewing nonsense:-) I can't believe I wasted my time reading your posts. Relax and enjoy the park.
wow, I can't believe you wasted your time, either. time to turn off the computer, bub, and ignore the masses. -
Hey, I mostly lurk around here, but as I do ride my bike in the park, I wanted to say: can't we all get along? I ride fast when I can, but at peak times this can be hazardous. So I have to give it a rest. But I really think there's plenty of carelessness from all sides during peak times, and that cyclists aren't the root of the problem any more than anyone else is.
The original poster was rightly upset when rude things were shouted at her. I don't see anyone here defending such conduct and I think if that hadn't occurred she wouldn't have even posted about her experience.
On July 4 I was riding in the park and it was so crowded that riding safely was a challenge at any speed. I didn't see an accident happen, but I saw the aftermath of two of them. One cyclist was down at the bottom of the hill approaching the Park Cricle exit; I couldn't see much and after a while I decided to circle back and then came upon ANOTHER accident, this one on South Lake Drive at about the midpoint of the lake. It was a middle-aged man (maybe in his 50s?) with graying hair, who was riding one of those fold-up bicycles. EMS was on the scene, but he was unconscious on the pavement with blood coming in a stream from his head. (This was despite the fact that he was wearing a helmet.) I can't get the image out of my mind and I fear he didn't make it. Anyone know? I couldn't find any info about it on the web.
It isn't just about consideration. It's also about safety. I know that after what I saw on Tuesday I'll still ride fast when I can but it's also important to know when you can't. -
Subject: Clarifications.
Just to clarify for all those that said bikers should say in the bike lane.
Directly from the prospect park rules on their website:
When the Park Drive is closed to motor vehicles, [bikes]use traffic lanes - the
Recreation lane is for runners and walkers.
Everyone has a right to use the park. I know many serious cyclist who use the park and also have babys they take to the park. I think instead of taking sides, all the baby owners should ride a few laps around the park and see what its like (you will be surprise at how many people walk right into the lane without looking) and all the Cyclist should grab a stroller and try crossing the drive lane 10 or 20 times and see how bikes and inline skaters treat you even when you follow the rules. Sounds silly but guarantee it would make the park safer with everyone understanding the others perspective. all these malicious cries to harm the other side are ridiculous, grow up and look for solutions! -
Long live the king ~
Amen, Elvis! -
steve wrote: my personal fave biking on the pedestrian side of the Manhattan Bridge. If the biker's are going to be so outspoken in their pro-bike demands (most of which I support) they need to not be so hypocritical by emulating the worst behaviors of automobile drivers.
It is my view that overall the pedestrians of this city are equally hypocritical. The North side of the Manhattan Bridge has many, many pedestrians on it, in my experience as many as the south side.
Additionally, pedestrians in forums like this often complain of cyclists behaviors with red lights, right of way, etc. Pedestrians in NYC as a rule never wait for the walk signal, jaywalk at will, crowd the road at intersections and walk out from between cars without looking. Not to mention those that open cab doors into traffic and not mentioning the behaviors of those that drive at all.
There are two double standards here:
The first is that no one here is complaining about how hard it is to jaywalk across Grand Army Plaza because of all the cars. Cars kill between 200 and 300 pedestrians in this city per year. Cyclists kill about .1 per year. The absurdity of this thread is heightened by the fact that the Park Loop is open to motor traffic during peak usage times on weekdays (when parents get home from work.) This traffic is supposed to go 25 or less, but they generally go 35-45mph. Where is the outrage?
The second double standard is that peds reserve the right to make any kind of unsafe situation that they want by doing all the things I listed above, but are angered by the mere possibility of someone on a bike endagering them.
There are a few people that speed around the park at high speeds in packs that are dangerous, it is true. I train in the park and my average speed is 22 mph. I've had no accidents and I take every precaution.
However, I cannot tell you how many times I've seen toddlers walking ON the park loop without holding any hands, I can't tell you how many times I've come around a turn to see an entire extended family standing across the whole loop, blocking it completely having a discussion. And the list goes on and on. A friend of mine was seriously injured in PP just last weekend when a 13 year old ran across the path with no warning. He swerved to avoid him and ended up breaking his nose and having serious injury. Typically cyclists are the ones that are hurt more in a cycllist/ped accident.
I have a 3 year old daughter so I can see where you are coming from, but I have to say that I take her to the park all the time, I cross at Garfield all the time and I've seen people rolling through at 25+ mph all the time and I've never had a close call. You might think that it is luck, but you'd be wrong. If you treat that loop as a road there are vrey few places that you can't see far enough to cross against bike traffic going at high speeds.
Now go get mad and get the cars removed from PP during rush hours. THEY are something that truly doesn't belong in our park. -
jmp66 wrote: a pedestrian can walk into traffic blindfolded and it's the driver's liability?
Yes. yes, it is. Even more so if the pedestrian is blindfolded, because -- well, if the pedestrian is blindfolded and the driver can see, couldn't the driver then see to avoid the pedestrian?
Pedestrians always have the right of way. This is even a question on 90% of the drivers' license tests in the country. -
Subject: Re: Clarifications.
Elvis wrote: Just to clarify for all those that said bikers should say in the bike lane.
This needs to be posted clearly in the park. i thought it was the case but wasn't sure.
Directly from the prospect park rules on their website:
When the Park Drive is closed to motor vehicles, [bikes]use traffic lanes - the
Recreation lane is for runners and walkers.
Everyone has a right to use the park. I know many serious cyclist who use the park and also have babys they take to the park. I think instead of taking sides, all the baby owners should ride a few laps around the park and see what its like (you will be surprise at how many people walk right into the lane without looking) and all the Cyclist should grab a stroller and try crossing the drive lane 10 or 20 times and see how bikes and inline skaters treat you even when you follow the rules. Sounds silly but guarantee it would make the park safer with everyone understanding the others perspective. all these malicious cries to harm the other side are ridiculous, grow up and look for solutions! -
I ran in a race in Central Park last weekend. This was an official race sponsored by the New York Road Runners Club, with thousands of runners. There were signs all over the road and at the park entrances to let people know that a race was going on. And yet this asshole on a bike felt compelled to ride his bike through the runners, shouting "Get off the fucking road!" Apparently his training was so very important that he couldn't possibly wait an hour for the road to clear.
Also - I've been running in the park in the evenings since the weather got hot and I can't believe how crowded the road is, and I can't believe that more than half the road is given over to cars. It's amazing to me that someone isn't seriously hurt or killed every single day. They need to get the cars OUT OF THE PARK during the summer. I really don't care if it is an inconvenience to the drivers or if there is a little more traffic on the side streets. -
Rose wrote: I ran in a race in Central Park last weekend. This was an official race sponsored by the New York Road Runners Club
Me too, you a member? You running the one in Shea this weekend?
Luckily most of the time the cyclists in central park are good during the races (take it from me, I've run several dozen of them this and last year). I've actually been purposly elbowed while running, by a POWER walker, who was like 70 years old. REFUSED to follow the directions of the mashalls yelling at him to move over, instead, he went mad crazy elbows out and plowed down thru the line of runners. Crazy doushe bag! -
kosherdave wrote: [quote=Rose]I ran in a race in Central Park last weekend. This was an official race sponsored by the New York Road Runners Club
Me too, you a member? You running the one in Shea this weekend?
Yes and no. I'm not doing any more races till fall. It's too damn hot. -
Dave,
Are you running the NYC Half on 8/27? -
I'm running the NYC Half, but not the one this wknd. I like the race at Shea (I'm a Mets fan) but it's too damn far and I need to do mky long run anyway.
-
I was so offended by the $60 registration fee for the NYC Half. So I boycotted, and wrote an irritable letter to NYCRR. But the race filled up anyway -- so much for my little protest. :roll:
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds