prospect park is not the tour de France

OnEasternParkway wrote: The amount if inconsiderate behavior, lax parenting, obliviousness, and sheer idiocy that takes place in the park simply boggles the mind. Here are my favorites:

1) Bikers with headphones
2) Bikers on cell phones
3) Bikers with headphones, on cell phones, with a dog trotting alongside, leash threatening to become entangled in spokes or to sever a pedestrian's limb
4) Children riding aimlessly in circles back and forth across the road
5) Children riding (alone or with parents) without helmets
6) Families or other groups stopped or sitting in the middle of the ped lane, their bikes/strollers/dogs spread out liberally across the lane

The list could go on and on.

I admit to riding with headphones, but I keep them at a VERY low-level and am sure to look whenever I am changing course. Biking without music for me is a chore. I need some motivation!

Rose wrote: Oh yeah, those too. They were all out in the park last night. The dog-and-bike combo is ridiculous. That seems like the dumbest idea ever.

I am one of the dog bike combo people and I really don't see a problem with it. I keep my dog on a short leash, am always aware of my surroundings and ride slowly in the middle lane. My dog is well trained an has never caused any problems.

The bikers are ones who seem to have the biggest problem with it. The same guy cursed me out twice and one much more polite man told me that what I was doing was very dangerous...YET these guys were biking in packs at very high speeds at 11am on a Sat. I know what I am doing is safe, there are no rules against it and that's why I don't take it personal.

I'm a regular old bike rider in the park. I don't like having the "racers" whiz so close to me without a "passing on your right". Other places that I go biking in similar circumstances it's seems to be the norm - communicating with fellow bikers when you pass them. I bike in PP regularly. NYC is not bike-friendly. However, I would generalize and say that there is a small segment of "VERY SPECIAL" riders who are not doing much in the way of promoting bike riding as an alternative mode of transportation. Pretty much assholes. Not enough space here for all of us - so you cannot do what you WANT. There's give and take and sometimes you (collective) have to suck it up and sacrifice a little of the training, just as peds need to be mindful of the function of the loop, just as the dog people should keep the dogs on the leash (unless in the Ravine at the appropriate hours), just as the parents will need to hold kid's hand. Maybe the prospect Park Alliance should do a massive campaign to let people know (not just signs posted on the road) what proper cooperative behavior is appropriate in the park.

Subject: Re: prospect park is not the tour de France

kensingtonmom wrote: Prospect Park is not the training ground for the next Lance Armstrong. I really think *some* of these over outfitted bicyclists have to get a grip on reality and share the park road. They are one group of people who need to use it and not dominate it. Today I was crossing the road with my stroller. I looked left and right before proceeding--all was clear. When I got to the center a pack of bicyclists came up over the hill (not in the bike lane) and then started cursing me for being in their way. "Watch where the f your going." "GET OUTTA MY WAY asshole." For God's sakes it is a public park and I looked both ways and was crossing the friggin road! Ugghh.

Neither is the Brooklyn Bridge! I was riding over the bridge one day and this guy came down the other way on the wrong side of the walkway and nearly ran a woman down or scared her half to death (pick one). It's the job of the bike riders to watch out for the pedestrians, not the other way around!

(I am not an asshole!)

doctorj wrote: Prospect park is clearly not the tour de France. You can tell the difference by which kinds of drugs are on sale there.

Rofles

On one hand I bike and know 1. Bikes don't go as fast as cars, so you can see them coming from a lot further and it won't hurt as much if you get plowed and 2. When the park is closed from cars (I think it's only open to cars on weekdays during rush hour) there is really no reason for people to be walking around in the bike lanes. It's like walking in the middle of traffic.

That said though us bikers need to realize we share the park with everyone and should respect them, even if they decide to form a human chain on the big hill going towards Coney Island Avenue. When I can I go when cars are allowed as pedestrians seem to respect them more and aren't there much anyway

Subject: Re: prospect park is not the tour de France

linusvanpelt wrote: [quote=filmlover44]Neither is the Brooklyn Bridge! I was riding over the bridge one day and this guy came down the other way on the wrong side of the walkway and nearly ran a woman down or scared her half to death (pick one). It's the job of the bike riders to watch out for the pedestrians, not the other way around!

No, it's the job of both to watch out for each other. There's one dedicated lane for each, and each should stay in it. (Some pedestrians think that you're supposed to walk in the right-hand lane, like in the street. You're not; the south lane is for walkers and the north lane for bikers, no matter which direction you're going.)

I bike on the bridge sometimes and I run on it sometimes. I see pedestrians in the bike lane far more often than I see bikers crossing into the pedestrian lane. I'm not saying bikers don't do it, and the one that you saw certainly shouldn't have. But for practical reasons bikers on the bridge have no incentive to cross into the pedestrian lane, because it's more crowded. Whereas I'm always seeing walkers casually drift across to the bike lane to take pictures, or to pass other walkers, or for no particular reason, without bothering to look for oncoming traffic.

I used to walk and bike to work over the bridge when I lived in Brooklyn Heights. The pedestrian side is too narrow for the volume of foot traffic on that bridge. Especially on weekends when the tourists are out on the strolling and taking pictures. I think we should make the pedestrian lane wider, and the bike lane narrower on the bridge.

That would also encourage slower bike speeds while going over the bridge. The way it is now, bikers go really fast, and sometimes skim right past walkers missing them by inches - I think they do it to "teach them a lesson" and make them move over to the walking section.

Weekdays after around 7 and on the weekend when cars are not allowed around the park Pedestrians and bikers get 2 lanes each, or so the signs say.

I run around the park and find that bikers and runners tend to be pretty curious in general. But there are a few trouble spots - like the curve by the exit to Grand Army. Woe be it to any runner who tries to exit the Pedesrtrian lane over there, packs of racing bikers can't, or won't stop. I have seen people away in ambulences on several occasions, one last week. I couldn't tell if it was a rider or runner, but I did see the bike and it was seriously dented up.

Subject: Re: ignorance

bklyngirl wrote: Regardless, it seems pretty apparent that people in PS are against "packs" of anything - cyclists, teenagers, nannies, strollers, bar hoppers....

Packs of cards are A-OK by me.

but

People often behave uncivilly when in packs.

I've cycled, ran, and rollerbladed the park for about 20 years. For the most part, the bikes are predictably in the right lane, with everyone else to the left. In addition, the "packs" are usually pretty good at letting you know they are approaching. They usually whistle, yell "HEY!" and/or make other loud noises. Pedestrians, joggers, and rollerbladers tend to run into trouble when they make sudden moves into the path of the bikes. Kids are notorious for this. In fact, as a kid, I once caused a crash with a cyclist in the park when I made a sudden turn into his path. I think it comes from a lack of respect for the kind of pain a bike accident can put you in. Most people wouldnt take chances with motorbikes or cars, but they think a bicycle is no big deal.

Just as the park is a nice oasis for everyone to relax and enjoy some recreation without fear of cars, its also one of the few places where cyclists can have car-free access to a pathed roadway. Prospect Park is a great place to do some training on a bike. It has a decent hill to climb, and nice downhill, and some challenging flats, plus a nice lakeview. Where else can they ride without traffic on a course like this in Brooklyn? It is not unreasonable or impossible for us to share the park with them. We just have to take care when crossing the street.

Ace wrote: To paraphrase Jethro Tull: You know they could slow down.

That wouldnt be training though. What would a good run be like if you had to go slowly all of the time because some people were not mindful of their wanderings in the running path? You would never get into competitive shape like that. I'm just saying . . .

Guvna wrote: I've cycled, ran, and rollerbladed the park for about 20 years. For the most part, the bikes are predictably in the right lane, with everyone else to the left. In addition, the "packs" are usually pretty good at letting you know they are approaching. They usually whistle, yell "HEY!" and/or make other loud noises. Pedestrians, joggers, and rollerbladers tend to run into trouble when they make sudden moves into the path of the bikes. Kids are notorious for this. In fact, as a kid, I once caused a crash with a cyclist in the park when I made a sudden turn into his path. I think it comes from a lack of respect for the kind of pain a bike accident can put you in. Most people wouldnt take chances with motorbikes or cars, but they think a bicycle is no big deal.

Just as the park is a nice oasis for everyone to relax and enjoy some recreation without fear of cars, its also one of the few places where cyclists can have car-free access to a pathed roadway. Prospect Park is a great place to do some training on a bike. It has a decent hill to climb, and nice downhill, and some challenging flats, plus a nice lakeview. Where else can they ride without traffic on a course like this in Brooklyn? It is not unreasonable or impossible for us to share the park with them. We just have to take care when crossing the street.

I agree. I also think that most of the people that bike in the park are pretty reasonable.

joncane wrote: Why not sit in on the Prospect Park Alliance meetings and discuss practical ways that all parties can make the park safer? Why not help the Parks Department distribute their literature on who's supposed to be in which lanes when, so that we can all make nice and share?

The Parks Department distributes literature??? To whom? Have never seen a thing. Better communication of the park rules would certainly help everyone.

As a bike racer, I dont consider it safe to ride in fast groups in the park...for the group or anyone around them. I gave into the temptation last weekend though, I hope for the last time. After slowing for 2 kids darting into the road, someone in the bike group shouted "just keep going."
I rarely say anything when passing another cyclist or pedestrian, not because I like to startle people, but because I have found that calling out causes the person to look right (and the bike usually follows the gaze).

Subject: biking without warning

I walk, run, and bike in the park and agree with most of this thread (too many free-range children, the bike packs are a little wide at times.)

What I'm curious about is, what everyone thinks of bikers outside of the park road? I know that when you're on a bike it can seem loud, but with all the other noises, it's not noticeable to others. My gripe is why don't bicyclists use bells/horns/yell "on the left" more around here? I don't care if you're on the sidewalk around the park or on side-streets, but you've gotta let people know you're there.

There should be a program to give out horns and bells. If others know the bike is coming, both parties benefit. The biker can more easily pass (assuming people pay attention or aren't jerks) and the pedestrians can keep themselves, their children, and pets from getting run into.

Back on the spandex pack, the warnings I've heard out of them are some angry "get the f--- out of the way."

magic1 wrote: And Kissena has their own fucking velodrome! Why can't they stay in Queens and terrorize people there?

velodromes are not suited to road race training. They are for sprint races in velodromes :?