New to Area - Advice on Fort Greene parts/Subway....Thanks!

It's obvious the OP was fed bad information and while you (and I) can fault that person for not thinking critically about stereotyping one of the biggest neighborhoods in brooklyn, I just don't see the point in "telling them to eff off". That's the aggressiveness I'm talking about.

To me there's a huge difference between someone who's familiar with bedstuy, or knows better, and still disparages it, and someone who knows nothing about bedstuy, has been given bad information, and has yet to look at the neighborhood on their own.

the former deserves derision, the latter needs a tidbit of slack, IMHO. they might not 'deserve' the slack, but what is the point of telling them off when you know they're uneducated on the subject? it seems self-serving to me.

Most people aren't familiar with bedstuy. most people don't realize how big it is and how many different parts there are. You can make a token attempt to spread awareness, or you can tell people to 'eff off'. I'm not saying BS'ers have to start a massive awareness campaign. I'm just saying that making an effort, especially on a community message board, can go a long way. There was time where I knew nothing about BS (and still I don't know that much) and if no one had bothered to talk to me about it, I would still assume it was a monolithic mass.

Citizen O wrote: In the real world, I'd tell someone describing Bed-Stuy as some inner-city hell to eff off, so I have no problem doing the same online.

First of all, the OP did not call it an 'inner-city hell', s/he said, 'it wasn't the best of areas' which is actually partially true. second of all, i've spent many years on message boards (as you can tell by the nerdy acronyms I use) and they are quite different in nature and convention than 'real life', IMHO.

on message boards it's too easy to misinterpret someone's tone or start fights b/c there's no real world consequences, so I tire very quickly of confrontational posting. it's just a personal thing. by all means this is an open forum if people want to tell the OP they've made stupid comments, that's entirely their prerogative.

However as someone who's been on these boards a lot, especially FG/CH/BS, I was just trying to helpfully comment on this thread. BS is in need of some good public diologue, so maybe you guys want to help out.

Ok that is quite funny. I need to watch what I say.


On a side night, I wish we had BS area distinctions. It is quite a big area.

guru wrote: The border they lie about is one thing, the laws that were created are to protect people from the ills of racism and the discrimination that results. My point is that you cannot ask a real estate person the questions that are asked on this and many other blogs because it is considered discrimination, and that is the law and it is obviously necessary. It affects values and moves pricing then education and services suffer. Pardon the interruption. 8)

I'm still not sure what your point is. If you are saying that the OP is a secret racist, prove it. Tell me the precise problem with his/her post that shows racism. Not wanting to be mugged suddenly becomes evidence of racism? That is nonsense. Saying that he/she thinks Bedstuy is "not the best" is also not proof of racism. I can find you more than a handful of african americans that would agree with that assertion. Not everyone thinks that Bedstuy is the crime-free oasis that some say it is. :shock:

Could there be some racism there? Possibly, but not based on what we have seen so far. That is an unfair stretch to make, and may say more about the people making the stretch than the OP.

guru wrote: It is against the law for a real estate person to answer those questions. Figure it out.

That is simply not true. Read the questions again. It would not be unlawful for a real estate person to give the crime stats and an opinion on the relatively safety of the area, so long as the answer is based on facts and not racist assumptions.

guru wrote: Asking the question is not against the law for an agent or broker, answering the question is. The person asking the question would have to get the info from another source other than the agent or broker's opinion; if I were showing someone property in Columbine I could not say it is unsafe or I would be breaking the law. My point is the answers and info by many on these blogs exhibits an obvious bias, and I have no opinion on OP's racism or lack thereof. I am fully aware of all the problems in Bed Stuy and the origin of the problems, but to quote some guy in a movie "you can't handle the truth" and these blogs aren't willing for that level of scholarship. I did not say you all are not capable I said you are not willing. I don't think Bed Stuy is the best, but it's home so I'll continue to make it the best I can. 8)

Excuse my ignorance, but can you be so kind as to show me the law that says it is unlawful for a real estate person to give a factual response in answer to the question whether a particular area is safe? As I understand it, using the example you did re Columbine, if the broker replied in part that there was a school shooting there some years ago - that would not be against the law. As pertains to New York, it would be unlawful to suggest to a property owner that they should sell soon because of an expected decrease in property values due to an increase in the presence of certain racial groups in the area, etc. However, as I understand it, that was not what you were referring to. In the case of the OP, if he asked an agent whether the area was safe, they can reply with precinct stats, etc.

If I were in the market to buy or rent in any given area, I would not expect a real estate agent to tell me whether the place was safe anyway - they are looking to make a sale, not break one. Given that, what is so wrong about the OP posting his questions here? Again, you choose to assume questions regarding safety are proxy for racist views, and I dont. That doesnt mean that I "cant handle the truth" as you put it. It just shows that I choose to interpret people's intentions by what they do and/or say, rather than some preconceived notions about what he/she mustve some how meant.

I'm glad that you are happy living in BS. I would not suggest that you shouldnt be. In the same vein, the OP is not obligated to embrace BS if he/she doesnt think it's the "best" place to live. We dont all have to agree on BS, but I think it is a mistake to assume that someone who doesnt think BS is the best of places harbors racist views.

I know people who think CH is crap and unsafe. I dont see them as racists though.

guru wrote: Guvna, if you want to get an idea of how dangerous certain questions and statements are that are discussed in such a flip matter on these blogs try placing an ad to rent or sell property in the NY Times or the Voice or Craigs List and you will understand how serious it is. Say it is a "safe" area and see if they print it. The cat on these statements was out of the bag long ago.

Fair enough Guru. The residential real estate industry has a history of discrimination counted against it, thus it now has the regulation of seemingly innocuous questions for fear that the questions are code for racist inquiries. However, this is not a real estate ad. This is a message board. The OP gave us no reason to suspect that he/she is a racist - he/she simply asked about safety. If the OP were talking to you on the street or in a bar and asked you if the area was safe, would you think the question is illegal, assume he/she is racist, and refuse to answer the question on the basis that you think it violates the law?

The cat that is out of the bag is that some people use code to discriminate in the real estate industry. I remain unconvinced that the OP falls into that category.

Oh, I see. So, you were not implying that the OP questions posed by the OP shows that he/she harbors racist views. You were just telling us to "figure out" that some people get bent out of shape at those sort of questions because, in a real estate setting, they would be possibly unlawful? Right. I'll take you at your word.

**Stomps out right behind queencallipygos**

If it's the truth, guru, then surely you must have proof. Please post it.

Proof that people who ask about the neighborhoods are racists, or that they have been breaking real estate laws. That seems to be what you're impyling, isn't it?

If not, could you plainly state exactly what it IS you're saying, rather than dropping little insinuations and asking us to "figure it out".

...Actually, you know what, never mind. If you don't care enough about your claims to state them plainly, then why should I care enough to listen to you?

Guru--I 'stomped out' because the discussion has become stale and the original poster never came back to clarify his/her questions or stance on the issue. It seems pointless for people on the board to argue with each other about the possible racist intent, neighborhood snobbery, innocent curiousity, or some other motive behind the thread when the initiator's not around anymore.