Ideas for calming down? (cops and citizens)
So, it seems as if there were definately gun shots fired early Thursday morning, seemingly from a roof somewhere between Washington and Classon, either on Sterling or St. Johns. The problem with overreacting and calling 311 and 911 all the time is what followed afterwards. A male, walking down the street, approached the corner of Washington and Sterling and was taken down by several officers responding to the call. He walked around the corner on Sterling moments after the shots were fired. He was tackled, searched and let go. After some verbal altercation with the cops, he was tackled again, and searhed by a different pair of cops on the street. He was searched directly in front of the same officers who had tackled him moments before and didn't have anything on him. So, it seems like the overreaction on the Crown Hgts/Propsect Hgts board here can have some really bad reprecussions on people simply walking down the street at 2 a.m. The police from the 77th will do this again and again if they are flooded with calls by a million people new to the neighborhood demading to know what they are doing about the crime in an apparently, and abnormal, high crime rate this summer. I say it is abnormal because the crime rate has been dropping drastically in the past few years. But, yes gunshots are scary and at the same point they are irregular out here, but I think people need to rethink the tactic of calling the cops every time they hear something because, sadly, innocent people are going to be fucked with by a police force deathly afraid of their COMPSTAT rates rising. Not sure what the solution is, but it would be nice to brainstorm and figure out a way we can avoid overreaction by the cops and by people who live here. A perfect balance is certainly impossible, but I don't want kids to be fucked up by an usually uncaring police force for doing nothing but walking. Any ideas?
Comments
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I feel pretty sure that the cops' tackling of that guy had nothing to do with the Daily Heights board.
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Did you see this happen, or did somebody tell you this?
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Simple tip I learned as a child (but some people as adults still don't understand): if a cop requests for you to stop and speak with them, stop and speak with them. I've done this numerous times, and it seems to do the trick. Sometimes (heaven forbid) I actually say "hi" to the cops as I see them. It's amazing how far human communication will take one once you begin dabbling in it.
I gotta say, if I'm verbally altercating with the cops, at that point I fully expect to be tackled. -
BigGuy wrote: I feel pretty sure that the cops' tackling of that guy had nothing to do with the Daily Heights board.
yeah, I pretty much completely agree with this. further, I'd love to hear from the source of the story. I'd especially love to know why he thought mouthing off to the cops would be a good idea. yeesh. sounds like a real genius wandering the streets of PH/CH. -
So, it seems as if there were definately gun shots fired early Thursday morning,
Either it seems there were gunshots or there were definitely gunshots. If it only seems that there were gunshots then it didn't definitely happen. If it definitely happened then it didn't seem to happen because it actually did.Any ideas?
Either way it seems to me that if someone is popping shots off outside my apartment then I'd be way more concerned about the possibility of a slug coming through my window (or that of one of my neighbors) than the fact that an overzealous cop might tackle the wrong guy while responding to the call. -
Subject: Re: Ideas for calming down? (cops and citizens)
LeeHo wrote: The problem with overreacting and calling 311 and 911 all the time is what followed afterwards.
LeeHo, about two years ago I was sitting in a room on the third floor of my house at the computer when I noticed glass on the floor near the window. I got up to investigate and when I pulled my curtains aside to look at the window, a bullet fell out. At some point while I was out of the house, someone shot through my window. The police came to investigate and once they determined that I didn't know anyone who might be trying to shoot me, and they looked at the trajectory, they determined that someone fired a gun off of a roof somewhere within about a block of the window and it just happened to end its journey lodged in my curtain. Fortunately, the only thing that happened was I had to replace a window, but at that moment I realized I might have been shot while sitting in my house minding my business.
Yes, gunshots are a reality in this neighborhood, and not every gunshot is a pitched battle between drug dealers. But we must start to educate folks that firing a gun may have tragic unintended consequenses. Should an innocent have gotten tackled twice by the police investigating the same crime? No. But how much more tragic would it have been if that bullet went ended up in the head of a child asleep in their bed, or resulted in some totally innocent person being maimed or killed?
I don't want innocent people to be the victim of overzealous policing. But I do think we need to recognize that these are not benign victimless crimes. The people disproportionatly effected by them are poor and black and they deserve to be protected as well. Its not acceptable to say "Well it was just a couple of gunshots, nothing to be concerned about". Everytime a gun goes off we should think that it has the potential to result in the loss of a life, and that is something all of us, new, old , black, white should try to prevent. -
Subject: Re: Ideas for calming down? (cops and citizens)
LeeHo wrote: So, it seems like the overreaction on the Crown Hgts/Propsect Hgts board here can have some really bad reprecussions on people simply walking down the street at 2 a.m.
Sorry, this is just absurd.
If people are shooting guns, it's reasonable that people living nearby would call the cops. And how do you know who is calling the cops, anyway? You're making a lot of irrational assumptions. -
LeeHo wrote: He walked around the corner on Sterling moments after the shots were fired. He was tackled, searched and let go. After some verbal altercation with the cops, he was tackled again, and searhed by a different pair of cops on the street. He was searched directly in front of the same officers who had tackled him moments before and didn't have anything on him.
For the kids playing along at home -- can you identify the:
[ ] Courtesy
[ ] Professionalism
[ ] Respect
in this scenario? -
Here's an idea -
Call 311 and find out how to file a complaint about the police. But don't expect people to laugh off gunshots... -
sterling2000 wrote: Simple tip I learned as a child (but some people as adults still don't understand): if a cop requests for you to stop and speak with them, stop and speak with them. I've done this numerous times, and it seems to do the trick. Sometimes (heaven forbid) I actually say "hi" to the cops as I see them. It's amazing how far human communication will take one once you begin dabbling in it.
I would like to know whether you are white.
I gotta say, if I'm verbally altercating with the cops, at that point I fully expect to be tackled. -
homeowner, that story about the bullet in your window is really scary! I also had something like that happen to me when I lived in harlem.
I lived between 132nd and 135th street on 5th avenue, and my apartment faced the street. my first year there, I woke up from feverish nightmare (I had the flu) around 2:30 a.m. because of gunshots. I looked out my window, saw a guy run-limp in one direction and a group of kids run in another direction. I was so out of it, I just went back to bed - didn't even bother to call the cops. I remember thinking, as I fell into bed, "I hope I don't get shot." I got up about half an hour later b/c someone was banging on my front door - it was a detective investigating the shooting. I told him what I'd seen - the kid limp-running - and that was that. turned out that some kids had gone outside to smoke from a party in my building, there was an altercation, and the brainiac that pulled the gun ended up shooting himself in the foot. he checked himself into harlem hospital (at the corner of 135th and 5th ave) where he was arrested.
the second year I lived there, right before I moved out, I came home to find a bullet through my window. I had a HUGE front window and generally kept the metal blinds down and closed. so it was pretty obvious something was off when I saw them through the window totally shredded and hanging oddly. my doorman was so relieved to see me - apparently they'd crawled through the window to see if I was there, and ended up repairing the window. I, luckily in retrospect, had spent that Saturday night elsewhere, since the trajectory of the bullet had it coming over my bed - it had come from the yard of the projects across the street.
in any case, since then, when I hear gun shots, I call the cops. bullets are scary and they do things that no one ever intends for them to do. I don't think calling the cops because of gunshots is an overreaction at all. -
Subject: Re: Ideas for calming down? (cops and citizens)
LeeHo wrote: So, it seems like the overreaction on the Crown Hgts/Propsect Hgts board here can have some really bad reprecussions on people simply walking down the street at 2 a.m.
What an absurd statement...
If I had to rephrase it to be more accurate, I might say:
"So, it seems like the overreaction [of the NYPD] can have some really bad reprecussions on [dark-skinned] people simply walking down the street at 2 a.m. [when a crime has recently been reported in the area]."
If the scenario had been that this person walking down the street at 2 a.m. had just been accidentally shot by someone firing a gun from a roof on St. Johns and the police came along as the result of a 911 call and were able to get that person to a hospital in time to save their life .... then what? -
LeeHo Wrote:
The police from the 77th will do this again and again if they are flooded with calls by a million people new to the neighborhood demading to know what they are doing about the crime in an apparently, and abnormal, high crime rate this summer.
Okay,
That is just an unfortunate statement on several levels, but here is what I understand it to mean:
1.The people that have lived in the neighborhood longer have come to understand and expect random acts of crime and the lack of reporting and police action, and those moving in to the neighborhood more recently should accept this standard as gospel and they are disrupting the existing culture of the neighborhood by calling the police and reporting crimes. And by informing other concerned citizens on this board, they simply don’t understand the “real†culture of the neighborhood and should just go with the flow.
2.The people who have lived in the neighborhood longer don’t deserve the attention or respect of the police and crimes (shooting a gun in the street is a crime unless you are authorized to carry a gun legally, etc.) in their neighborhood are expected to be ignored by the police because people don’t call it in (for what ever reason).
3. Each time you call in a CRIME, you are putting innocent people at risk of being harmed by the police ( more harm than actually being shot, that is)
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Sorry, but I disagree.
I call in (to 311 or 911) gun shots, car alarms, fights, assaults, break-ins and vandalism because I live here and this is my home. If you don’t like people calling these things in to the police in this neighborhood, you are in a losing battle – and the so called gentrifier saint going anywhere. At least not until we can get top dollar on our places in several years - then a new wave will come in after us moving farther and farther eastward.
And, the police’s actions probably had to do more with the individual’s actions and nothing to do with this board. I’ve communicated with the police on many occasions and I have never been tackled by them.
let's keep things in perspective - lower crimes rates or not, gunshots are a serious matter that should be called in by as many pople as possible until jackasses realize that if you fire off a gun in MY neighborhood, you will be taking a risk of getting your butt caught by the police.
And for the record, it's my neighborhood too - because I live here.
It really is irrelevant to the issue of calling in CRIMES to the POLICE. -
Barnable wrote: [quote=sterling2000]Simple tip I learned as a child (but some people as adults still don't understand): if a cop requests for you to stop and speak with them, stop and speak with them. I've done this numerous times, and it seems to do the trick. Sometimes (heaven forbid) I actually say "hi" to the cops as I see them. It's amazing how far human communication will take one once you begin dabbling in it.
I would like to know whether you are white.
I gotta say, if I'm verbally altercating with the cops, at that point I fully expect to be tackled.
Now that's a personal question...black, white, or whatever...sling words at a cop and expect a beating...duh...
I guess by your question, you are suggesting all black people should accept gunfire in the neighborhood and avoid the police at all costs (even the safety of one's own friends and family). By an extension of that logic, only white people care about peaceful streets and the care of their fellow man. And, in pointing out this difference between blacks and whites you contribute to a racist argument that there are fundamental differences between ethnicities.
Not so great, eh? -
fuck the cops.
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sterling2000 wrote: [quote=Barnable][quote=sterling2000]Simple tip I learned as a child (but some people as adults still don't understand): if a cop requests for you to stop and speak with them, stop and speak with them. I've done this numerous times, and it seems to do the trick. Sometimes (heaven forbid) I actually say "hi" to the cops as I see them. It's amazing how far human communication will take one once you begin dabbling in it.
I would like to know whether you are white.
I gotta say, if I'm verbally altercating with the cops, at that point I fully expect to be tackled.
Now that's a personal question...black, white, or whatever...sling words at a cop and expect a beating...duh...
I guess by your question, you are suggesting all black people should accept gunfire in the neighborhood and avoid the police at all costs (even the safety of one's own friends and family). By an extension of that logic, only white people care about peaceful streets and the care of their fellow man. And, in pointing out this difference between blacks and whites you contribute to a racist argument that there are fundamental differences between ethnicities.
Not so great, eh?
Thanks for responding. You are white. -
Daily Heights,
This was witnessed by a business owner on Washington Ave and told to me. He is a longtime resident and business owner.
Furthermore, the idea was to brainstorm on ideas to make things better. I did write that gunshots are no small thing and very scary. That is no small thing. But, I think a rush of 311 calls about lesser things certainly provoke the police to act unaturally agressive. That was my main point. -
LeeHo wrote: But, I think a rush of 311 calls about lesser things certainly provoke the police to act unaturally agressive. That was my main point.
I would think that the being in the vicinity very shortly after shots are fired would provoke perfectly natural aggression - it's called self-preservation. -
LeeHo wrote: Daily Heights,
LeeHo - I understand where you are coming from but it is up to that business owner to make sure he reports what he saw the police doing. People must remain vigilant not only to the crime but the police as well. This business owner should also make an effort to attend one of the meeting and make public what he witnessed.
This was witnessed by a business owner on Washington Ave and told to me. He is a longtime resident and business owner.
Furthermore, the idea was to brainstorm on ideas to make things better. I did write that gunshots are no small thing and very scary. That is no small thing. But, I think a rush of 311 calls about lesser things certainly provoke the police to act unaturally agressive. That was my main point.
Remember bullets are not racists they will kill no matter what your color or religion. -
Barnable wrote: [quote=sterling2000][quote=Barnable][quote=sterling2000]Simple tip I learned as a child (but some people as adults still don't understand): if a cop requests for you to stop and speak with them, stop and speak with them. I've done this numerous times, and it seems to do the trick. Sometimes (heaven forbid) I actually say "hi" to the cops as I see them. It's amazing how far human communication will take one once you begin dabbling in it.
I would like to know whether you are white.
I gotta say, if I'm verbally altercating with the cops, at that point I fully expect to be tackled.
Now that's a personal question...black, white, or whatever...sling words at a cop and expect a beating...duh...
I guess by your question, you are suggesting all black people should accept gunfire in the neighborhood and avoid the police at all costs (even the safety of one's own friends and family). By an extension of that logic, only white people care about peaceful streets and the care of their fellow man. And, in pointing out this difference between blacks and whites you contribute to a racist argument that there are fundamental differences between ethnicities.
Not so great, eh?
Thanks for responding. You are white.
And your response proves my point, or rather the point you were making by backing into it. You must be a cultural anthropologist or a very upset person who happens to like free-flowing bullets in the streets.
You obviously fall into a camp where you feel better in pointing out people's differences rather than their common ground, which is why this line of discussion will never get anywhere.
Congratulations to you for being part of the problem, rather than the solution.
Back to the original thread...
If I hear gunshots or witness a robbery or find a group hanging out and making too much noise late at night or hear a dog barking incessantly, I'll call the appropriate 311 and/or 911 number (i.e. the authorities) and let them work it out. That's what mindful citizens are supposed to do, or so I thought until being attacked for doing so. -
LeeHo wrote: But, I think a rush of 311 calls about lesser things certainly provoke the police to act unaturally agressive.
Calls to a non-emergency line have nothing to do with police response to shots fired. -
I can't find anywhere in the original post a reference to the ethnicity of the cops or the victim of the tackle.
It seems like some assumptions are being made here.... -
Another hypothetical:
If a trouble-alert call comes in to JLA headquarters and Superman and Martian Manhunter go tackle Lex Luthor, is that racist? I mean after all, that's a clear case of a Kryptonian and a Martian attacking a Human. -
qtrain wrote: [quote=LeeHo]But, I think a rush of 311 calls about lesser things certainly provoke the police to act unaturally agressive.
Calls to a non-emergency line have nothing to do with police response to shots fired.
I would rethink that statement. All calls are recorded into a data base with case numbers. I'm sure there must be a reason for this case number. They also categorize complaints. The city can use this information, like a marketing company, but with complaints.
I like to call them and just have a chat once in a while and discuss this blog with them.
Maybe we should propose making Prospect Heights a gated community and all the ethnicities can know each other is safe from each other because everyone is wearing matching ankle bracelets. It could be like the armstrong bracelet without the steroids of course.
Why would that business man inform the police? Its easy to call someone from the privacy of your own home with bullet proof curtains (I need to get some of those, can you get them at the local 99 cent store) He could jeopardize his well being by telling anything to the cops. Think about it...
For those that sit here and translate a blog to make more sense for them. Seriously get a life. Nobody really wants to hear your editing. This is not a literary masterpiece. If it was? Why would we make it public? Common! -
djuoh wrote: Maybe we should propose making Prospect Heights a gated community and all the ethnicities can know each other is safe from each other because everyone is wearing matching ankle bracelets. It could be like the armstrong bracelet without the steroids of course.
what does calling the cops regarding gunfire have to do with gated communities? for that matter, how many gated communities are there in nyc? that seems more likely in southern florida than brooklyn.djuoh wrote: Why would that business man inform the police? Its easy to call someone from the privacy of your own home with bullet proof curtains (I need to get some of those, can you get them at the local 99 cent store) He could jeopardize his well being by telling anything to the cops. Think about it...
bullet proof curtains? who said anything about bullet proof curtains? I think people have been saying that they don't want bullets coming through their windows ... is that a bad thing by your definition? -
I found one!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagate,_Brooklyn
I think some parts of Park Slope were once gated, too...it was relatively common in cities in the early part of the 20th century (St. Louis, Detroit, Buffalo, etc.)... -
alafairnadia wrote: [quote=djuoh]Maybe we should propose making Prospect Heights a gated community and all the ethnicities can know each other is safe from each other because everyone is wearing matching ankle bracelets. It could be like the armstrong bracelet without the steroids of course.
what does calling the cops regarding gunfire have to do with gated communities? for that matter, how many gated communities are there in nyc? that seems more likely in southern florida than brooklyn.djuoh wrote: Why would that business man inform the police? Its easy to call someone from the privacy of your own home with bullet proof curtains (I need to get some of those, can you get them at the local 99 cent store) He could jeopardize his well being by telling anything to the cops. Think about it...
bullet proof curtains? who said anything about bullet proof curtains? I think people have been saying that they don't want bullets coming through their windows ... is that a bad thing by your definition?
The gated community was a joke!
SevenOneEighty, said the curtain stopped her bullet -
What about a gate that stops bullets...go for the whole package!
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sterling2000 wrote: I found one!
huh, interesting. it seems so much more suburban to me to gate a community in this country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagate,_Brooklyn
I think some parts of Park Slope were once gated, too...it was relatively common in cities in the early part of the 20th century (St. Louis, Detroit, Buffalo, etc.)...
I mean, growing up in Miami, gated communities were always a big hoopla - visiting your friends was a royal pain in the ass. but that was, again, suburban. even the ghettoest apartment complex had a gate and a guard. I guess they do this in Texas too. but apartment complexes are different - they're rarely taller than 2 stories, and tend to sprawl over several city blocks.
and all over Latin America, people often live in compounds, with a big gate as a front door to an area that contains 3 or 4 large homes. but I think that's a combination of issues - both wealth and rapid urbanization of villages, in addition to traditional familial nesting. -
sterling2000 wrote: What about a gate that stops bullets...go for the whole package!
I think the curtains will make me feel like I am living in the country, and there are really loud fireworks going off but it isn't fourth of July?!?!
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