Operation Impact to Return to Crown Heights

queencallipygos · January 2008

wirenut wrote: [quote=queencalliygos]....Not use a car in the first place?

I never tried it before but when the weather gets warmer I will try to do one of my jobs using a bicycle. Transporting my 500 pounds of tools and supplies by bicycle will be interesting (not to mention how to lock it up.)

...ah. My apologies, and you actually bring up a very good point; I was thinking more of the people for whom using a car isn't quite as essential (i.e., the business executives who take a car ten blocks to work and back, the bridge-and-tunnel types who drive into the city rather than using trains, buses and subways) rather than a case such as yours, where you're carrying your own equipment around for your work.

It does strike me, though, that if people who didn't really NEED to use their cars didn't, then it would make parking easier for those who DID need to, and everyone would win.

paraderest · January 2008

Anonymous wrote: According to a New York Times article, they are being paired with officers alreayd in the program: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/27/nyregion/27crime.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

The 77 didn't already have a program. Up until last week there were no officers assigned to Field Training or Impact in the 77. Even if there were some cops in Field Training or Impact it wouldn't be much guidance for the new class. The cop with 6 months on the street (writing as many summonses as possible)is supposed to lead somebody who just graduated. It's like the blind leading the blind. This whole notion of pairing up the rookies with senior officers is just an urban legend.

caseopele · January 2008

I've seen a few of the new cops so far and I have to give them their props. They took on a job with insufficient pay, where the simple act of putting on the uniform makes them a target of hate. I respect them for deciding to do what they do, I know I couldn't do it.

king without a crown · January 2008

Lets all welcome our new Cops,let them know they are appreciated. Simply having a clean place to use the bathroom on patrol means alot to these guys and girls. Don't be afraid to talk to them, let them know whats going on in the "Hood", point out the good guys and point out the bad. They really don't have much guidance, and it's the Communities job as much as the Police Dept. to educate and guide them towards being the Police Officers we a ALL want them to be.

wirenut · January 2008

excellent point

caseopele · January 2008

King without a crown wrote: Lets all welcome our new Cops,let them know they are appreciated. Simply having a clean place to use the bathroom on patrol means alot to these guys and girls. Don't be afraid to talk to them, let them know whats going on in the "Hood", point out the good guys and point out the bad. They really don't have much guidance, and it's the Communities job as much as the Police Dept. to educate and guide them towards being the Police Officers we a ALL want them to be.

That's good to know, I was hesitant to say anything to them though most of them have been friendly. I didn't want to overstep my bounds. Thanks Kwac!

boogieknight · January 2008

King without a crown wrote: Lets all welcome our new Cops,let them know they are appreciated. Simply having a clean place to use the bathroom on patrol means alot to these guys and girls. Don't be afraid to talk to them, let them know whats going on in the "Hood", point out the good guys and point out the bad. They really don't have much guidance, and it's the Communities job as much as the Police Dept. to educate and guide them towards being the Police Officers we a ALL want them to be.

Do you mean allow them into our homes to use our bathrooms? I've never heard of or seen this? Or were you just addressing business owners?

mr. met · January 2008

haha, boogieknight, i was wondering the same thing. am i supposed to be letting these guys drop a deuce in my bathroom?

anonymous · January 2008

Maybe a silly question, but how can one identify the newbies?

homeowner · January 2008

They are the cops walking around the neighborhood with looks of wide-eyed amazement.

carnivore · January 2008

mr. met wrote: haha, boogieknight, i was wondering the same thing. am i supposed to be letting these guys drop a deuce in my bathroom?

Better put a lock on your tank. Unless you want to leave yourself vulnerable to an upper decking.

guvna · January 2008

mr. met wrote: haha, boogieknight, i was wondering the same thing. am i supposed to be letting these guys drop a deuce in my bathroom?

LOL! a steady diet of doughnuts and coffee can produce the most unpleasant deuces known to man (and woman)!

anonymous · January 2008

"Lets all welcome our new Cops,let them know they are appreciated. Simply having a clean place to use the bathroom on patrol means alot to these guys and girls. Don't be afraid to talk to them, let them know whats going on in the "Hood", point out the good guys and point out the bad. They really don't have much guidance, and it's the Communities job as much as the Police Dept. to educate and guide them towards being the Police Officers we a ALL want them to be."

I have to admit, if we want these wet-behind-the-ears types to understand the neighborhood in which they will be working, KWAC is right. Lord knows most don't have any idea of what life is like outside of L.I. or Staten Island or the other non-urban places these young guys and ladies live. But there's no way I'm letting some flatfoot use my bathroom! They're on their own on that one.

mr. met · January 2008

i've definitely noticed a lot more cops on foot on franklin. nice to see. any word on how effective theyve been so far, or is it too soon? have they seen a lot of action? i guess these questions are directed mostly towards KWAC.

daver · January 2008

mr. met wrote: i've definitely noticed a lot more cops on foot on franklin. nice to see. any word on how effective theyve been so far, or is it too soon? have they seen a lot of action? i guess these questions are directed mostly towards KWAC.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs077pct.pdf

mr. met · January 2008

thanks

king without a crown · January 2008

The majority of the Cops are not from long Island, nor Staten Island, so lets not make blanket generalizations. As for their efficacy on on reducing Crime, it's still too early to tell. However,I'm sure it's a little quiter in the Impact Zone, but these new Officers need guidance, being a good cop doesnt happen overnight. As for them dropping deuces in your nice clean bathrooms, I think you needn't worry. Due to their low income, these guys barely poop, due to insufficient nourishment. :roll:

neene · January 2008

in the past i have experienced the "wet behind the ears" syndrome with newly posted cops on franklin
but honestly, that's not what i am seeing now
what i do see is real foot patrol including down the side streets
i'm saying hello and getting a response back and that hasn't always happened

it's been one week
i say, so far, so good
& welcome

daver · January 2008

King without a crown wrote: As for them dropping deuces in your nice clean bathrooms, I think you needn't worry. Due to their low income, these guys barely poop, due to insufficient nourishment. :roll:

Funny. Those new guys are making $32,700, which I agree makes them underpaid. I suspect they can eat though.

mr. met · January 2008

hmmm...i thought new cops made 26k.

$32,700 isn't bad at all.

lilbangladesh · January 2008

I eat fairly well and all the new cops I've seen are chubbier than I am. These people aren't starving. They're just underpaid.

That said, there were a whole bunch of them on Nostrand on Monday and I think the effect has been positive so far. It seems they are really trying to learn about the neighborhood they are patrolling and trying to become part of the community. It seems that there is a real effort to return to the days of Officer Tom yore when people knew their local beat cop.

So far so good! Thumbs up!

daver · January 2008

mr. met wrote: hmmm...i thought new cops made 26k.

$32,700 isn't bad at all.

Your first figure is for the six months in the academy.

Police Academy (first six months): $25,100 (Annualized)
Upon completion of six months: $32,700
Upon completion of 1 ½ years: $34,000
Upon completion of 2 ½ years: $38,000
Upon completion of 3 ½ years: $41,500
Upon completion of 4 ½ years: $44,100
Upon completion of 5 ½ years: $59,588

* These salaries do not include overtime earnings, night-shift differential, holiday pay and uniform allowance.

http://www.nypd2.org/html/recruit/salary.html

mr. met · January 2008

thanks, daver.

looks like you can make a pretty decent living as a copper.

wirenut · January 2008

The real money for cops comes on the back end when they retire:

50% of roughly the last three years averaged together -Partially TAX FREE- after just 20 years on the job for as long as you can stay alive in retirement. That's a regular pension not a disability pension which is more money and I think fully tax free.

If you join young, 21, and quit at 41, and live till you are 80-something (remember they also maintain your health benefits when you retire to help you live longer)

you will be collecting retirement pay for 40 + years

Not too shabby

If some of the details are off, excuse me, but I think that's a close summary.

carnivore · January 2008

wirenut wrote: The real money for cops comes on the back end when they retire:

50% of roughly the last three years averaged together -Partially TAX FREE- after just 20 years on the job for as long as you can stay alive in retirement. That's a regular pension not a disability pension which is more money and I think fully tax free.

If you join young, 21, and quit at 41, and live till you are 80-something (remember they also maintain your health benefits when you retire to help you live longer)

you will be collecting retirement pay for 40 + years

Not too shabby

If some of the details are off, excuse me, but I think that's a close summary.

Not only that, but they often do tons of extra overtime their last few years, which is included in the pay their pensions are based on.
Also, because cops can retire so early, they often get another city job and work until a normal retirement age to collect 2 pensions!
So the starting pay is low, but if they hang in there, they can do alright.

king without a crown · January 2008

Wow with all those great benefits its amazing that the City can't hire enough Police Officers. I don't think any other City Agency has a recruiting problem either.

lucille · January 2008

I'm curious as to how much an officer actually sees per paycheck, once the taxes are gone. I have a friend who's been on the force for 9 years, and I think that after taxes he's lucky to take home 500- 600 bucks a week. He lives in a rent controlled apartment, but still. He's lucky and has a position that doesn't often put him on the street and in the way of danger, but imagine putting your life on the line for such chump change. And, as casepeople pointed out earlier, just wearing the uniform seems to make him a target. So, no, it's not the most underpaid job in the world, but it still takes an enormous sense of self-sacrifice to take the job and to make it to retirement.
Given the fact that we've given Ratner an astronomical tax break on his new development, not mention selling him the railyards for well below the highest big, I don't think raising the salaries of city workers is such a bad idea. Especially with the demand that the Ratner thing will create. How many traffic cops will it take to manage the intersection of Flatbush and Atlantic? Shudder to think.

daver · January 2008

Lucille wrote: I'm curious as to how much an officer actually sees per paycheck, once the taxes are gone. I have a friend who's been on the force for 9 years, and I think that after taxes he's lucky to take home 500- 600 bucks a week.

I'm pretty certain that officers don't have to pay any special income taxes that the rest of us don't, but if they do then I would certainly vote to abolish that. Otherwise, I don't see this as being a factor. Everyone has to pay taxes. If you are proposing that we eliminate income taxes for officers, then my gut reaction is that I would be against it. I don't like creating loopholes in taxes for anyone, and if we need to raise the level of their take home pay, I would prefer to see it done by a genuine raise.

Additionally, I find your figure of $500-600/week for a nine year veteran to be unlikely. They don't have to pay their health care, he must have something else being taken out of his check. Some benefits:

# 20 Paid vacation days your first year
# 27 Paid vacation days after 5 years of service
# Unlimited sick leave with full pay
# A choice of paid medical programs
# Prescription, dental, and eye glass coverage

Here is some further info from the website:

When including base salary, average overtime and night shift differential, holiday pay, and uniform allowance, a Police Officer earns over $35,000, on average, in the first year; $45,000, on average, in the second year; $77,000, on average, after 6 years.

They quote $77k for six years, I would assume the at nine years they would be making more, but I'll just use the six year figure. For $500-600/wk I will use $550, which equals $28,600 yearly take home. Subtract that from $77k and you get $48,400 per year in payroll taxes, or about 63%. We all know that taxes in NYC are out of sight, but they aren't _that_ high.

paraderest · January 2008

There is only one health plan that is no cost, the rest require officer contributions. The pension is also partially funded by the officer's own contributions. The prescription, dental and eyeglass benefits are all recieved from the PBA (funded by dues) and are not paid for by the city.

I would like to know what the average overtime is. There are plenty of police officers who do the maximum amount of overtime every month. What's average? 5 hours? 10 hours? 45 hours? The overtime capped was lifted a few months ago and there were officers making 60 hours a month. These are the officers that arrest everybody and their mother for crack pipes or shopping carts. The city has an interesting way of using statistics.

Using that $77,000 figure for a moment...1/2 it and get $33,500. Deduct takes and you're at about 25,000. If an officer retires at 45 this year and he lives for another 30 years to be 75 in the year 2038 he will still be making his $25,000 yearly. In the year 2038 how far will we able to stretch that money. Now, I agree that 45 is very young to retire but it only a fool stays in the NYCPD under the rank of Lt. past 20 years of service. That pension is not guarenteed after 20 years of service should you decide to stay longer. When your wife gets pissed off and puts marihuana in your meatballs because you work too much (it happened recently) you are suddenly wondering why you just gave up the last 23 years of your life with nothing to show for it. No pension, no health insurance, no prospect of getting a decent job again. The city makes cops with over 20 years of service targets.

So deduct your federal, state, city income taxes, and social security. Deduct the pension contribution, health care contribution and union dues. Deduct the extra contribution into the pension and 457 plan(because $25,000 in the year 2038 will buy you a six pack of Miller Lite). After retirement the co-pays go up and the benefits get reduced (you only get new glasses every two years instead of yearly).

daver · January 2008

Sheesh, I'm all for adequate compensations for law enforcement, but this is the wrong tact to take IMO. Try getting a QUARTER of that in the private sector...

After 20 years of service, a retired Police Officer will receive:

* Estimated earnings of $50,783 per year, comprised of 50 % of salary, longevity, night shift differential, overtime and an annual $12,000 payment from a Variable Supplement Fund.

- A retired Police Officer could receive approximately $1.9 million when retired assuming a life expectancy of 80 years. This figure is based on the age of appointment of 22 and the age of retirement of 42.

- The dollar amount of $1.9 million is estimated on 2005 salaries and is not adjusted for inflation or for future raises.

- This dollar amount will be higher for uniformed members that retire above the rank of Police Officer.

* Full health benefits

* Annuity Fund and Deferred Compensation Plan, 401K and I.R.A.

I'm not saying it is all gold and rainbows or anything, but it is WAY better than what non-officers get for sure. Which isn't to say that they don't deserve it, but seriously undermines anything that can be construed as complaining about it.

Operation Impact to Return to Crown Heights

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