Election 2008: So is Hillary Clinton finished?
Comments
-
Obama and Clinton in a statistical tie, nationally, according to Gallup pollsters today.

I'm generally not interested in horse-race politics, but this is exciting! -
pitu wrote: Obama and Clinton in a statistical tie, nationally, according to Gallup pollsters today.
Much more exciting than that other thing happening today.
I'm generally not interested in horse-race politics, but this is exciting! -
I dunno. I'm sufficiently excited by the Super Bowl to actually bother watching for the first time in five years.

But the race is, too. -
Carnivore wrote: 718y, we know you think that, but you're kidding yourself if you think that most Americans want to stay in Iraq. Ultimately, I don't think it will be a deal-breaker for the Republican base, but across the board,
LOL.^
Okaaay... consider yourself warned...
Yes, Yes, everyone WANTS out, but the reality is we are there for YEARS to come (i.e., S. Korea, Saudi Arabia, Germany,etc.). Don't kid yourselves. (Huffington post, Dailykos, et al.).the WILL be PERMANENT (10+ years) US bases in Iraq - even if they are in the middle of the dessert.
Many people I hear in the media (the democratic supporters) seem to think they are being promised a rapid withdrawal by the democrats. We need that oil and are staying until we get it.
Great Video on Hillary - I DO think she will be stronger on the Iraq issues too.Pretty honest analysis by Ann ( although she will NOT vote for Hillary - Pa-lease.)
I think when the debate goes Republican vs. Democrat instead of nominee vs. nominee, Obama and Clinton will get their asses handed to them if they use their current language about Iraq from the nominee race.
You will probably see a shift in the way Hillary talks about Iraq should she become the nominee. -
Clinton served on the Walmart board for 6 years, a fact that was omitted from her official biography. I doubt this story will have legs, but it is interesting.
-
Caught this one.
Everyone blames her for what her husband does or for what he doesn’t do. (This is what the compound “Billary” is all about.) If she answers questions aggressively, she is shrill. If she moderates her tone, she’s just play-acting. If she cries, she’s faking. If she doesn’t, she’s too masculine. If she dresses conservatively, she’s dowdy. If she doesn’t, she’s inappropriately provocative.
Interesting.
http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/all-you-need-is-hate/ -
Wow... I had no idea Hillary was so cute in the early 80s. And the powder blue power suit... those were the days.
-
Go to Gawker

Gawker wrote: 50 Cent Says Obama May Die If You Don't Vote Hillary
there's video
Hopefully you haven't voted yet, because Hillary Clinton just picked up a key endorsement from rapper 50 Cent, who notes that not only does he think "she could do a good job" but also that she won't go down in a hail of gunfire, killed by some redneck with an assault weapon.
Bill O'Reilly is a prick. -
-
Whatever your politics, you've gotta love this photo:
-
[quote=Carnivore]Whatever your politics, you've gotta love this photo:

Holy crap!
I think I just saw the future president and first lady in Williamsburg the other day! -
Hillary's biggest challenge in the coming weeks and months continues to be...
The same old "electability" and divisiveness issue specifically regarding her as a person, not as a female, especially in light of so much momentum and broadly unifying, healing talk coming from the other Senator from Illinois.
A notable entry on the subject:
Dear Senator Hillary Clinton, Please Step Down
But that's clearly not going to happen, even if she loses the popular vote. Similarly, I doubt Obama would call it a day if he were in that position.
So on to the convention we go, regardless of what actually happens in Ohio, Texas, or anywhere else for that matter, as neither candidate is in a position to win the delegate count majority number needed to seal the nomination, and neither would care to step down absent that.
Especially if her numbers continue to slip in the coming weeks, given the do-or-die nature of locking in superdelegates at any cost for the final end-game scenario at the convention, I guess we'll "find out what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real."
Well it started nicely, anyway. -
Oh yes.. that photo is great!
Bill was cute!
I am a baby boomer and gotta tell you I have pics with the first husband.. married in 1969 that look just like that!
What were we thinking about... in trying to look so different we all turned out looking like each other!
And I guess in Williamsburg this generation is doing the same thing.
Oh to be REALLY hip!!! -
Daaaaang.
Noonan obviously does not like Clinton, but I think she got it right about her.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120302279226969393.html?mod=opinion_main_commentariesDECLARATIONS
I heard an interview question on CNN:
By PEGGY NOONAN
Confidence or Derangement?
February 15, 2008
"This is death by a thousand cuts." That's what they keep saying about Hillary Clinton.
Think of what this week was for her. She awoke each day having to absorb new sentences in a paragraph of woe:
[Confidence or Derangement?]
Three more primary losses, not even close. Now it's eight in a row. A slide in the national polls. Staff shakeup: soap-opera-watching campaign manager out, deputy out. Bill's former campaign manager, David Wilhelm, jumps for Barack Obama. Josh Green, in a stunning piece that might be called a meticulously reported notebook dump, says, in The Atlantic, that Mrs. Clinton made personnel decisions based only on loyalty, not talent and skill. (There's a lot of that in the Bush White House. The loyalty obsession is never a sign of health.) The Wall Street Journal reports "internal frictions" flaring in the open, with Clinton campaign guru Mark Penn yelling, "Your ad doesn't work!" to ad maker Mandy Grunwald, who fires back, "Oh, it's always the ad, never the message." (This is a classic campaign argument. The problem is almost always the message. Getting the message right requires answering this question: Why are we here? This is the hardest question to answer in politics. Most staffs, and gurus, don't know or can't say.) On a conference call Tuesday morning, Mr. Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, told reporters Mrs. Clinton simply cannot catch up. It is "next to impossible" for her to get past him on pledged delegates, she'd need "a blowout victory" of 20 to 30 points in the coming states, the superdelegates will "ratify" what the voters do. (I wrote in my notes, "not gloating--asserting as fact.") Within the hour Mr. Plouffe's words were headlined on Politico, made Drudge, and became topic one on the evening news shows. Veteran Associated Press reporter Ron Fournier took a stab at an early postmortem in what seemed a long-suppressed blurt: The Clintons always treated party leaders as "an extension of their . . . ambitions," "pawns in a game of success and survival. She may pay a high price for their selfishness soon." He cited party insiders: Superdelegates "won't hesitate to ditch" Mrs. Clinton if her problems persist. To top it all off, Mrs. Clinton has, for 30 years, held deep respect for her husband's political acumen, for his natural, instinctive sense of how to campaign. And he's never let her down. Now he's flat-footed, an oaf lurching from local radio interview to finger-pointing lecture. Where did the golden gut go? How did his gifts abandon him? Abandon her? Her campaign blew through $120 million. How did this happen?
The thing about that paragraph is it could be longer.
And it all happened in public and within her party. The dread Republicans she is used to hating, whom she seems to pay no psychic price for hating, and who hate her right back, are not doing this to her. Her party is doing this.
Her whole life right now is a reverse Sally Field. She's looking out at an audience of colleagues and saying, "You don't like me, you really don't like me!"
Although of course she's not saying it. Her response to what from the outside looks like catastrophe? A glassy-eyed insistence that all is well. "I'm tested, I'm ready, let's make it happen!" she yelled into a mic on a stage in Texas on the night of her latest defeat. This is meant to look like confidence. Whether or not you wish her well probably determines whether you see it as game face, stubbornness or evidence of mild derangement.
* * *
In Virginia last Sunday, two days before the Little Tuesday voting, she suggested her problem is that she's not a big phony. "People say to me all the time, 'You're so specific. . . . Why don't you just come and, you know, really just give us one of those great rhetorical flourishes and then, you know, get everybody all whooped up.' "
When she said it, I thought it might be a sign that Mrs. Clinton was beginning to accept the idea that she might lose. I thought it was a way of explaining to others--a way of explaining to herself--why things hadn't worked. A riff that wasn't a riff but a marker, a rationale for a loss, an explanation of why she failed that could be archived by television producers--Hillary on the trail, 2/10/08--and retrieved the day she concedes. A 15-second piece of videotape that tells the story her way, with an admission that was actually a boast. I could do that big rhetorical stuff if I wanted to, and if I thought it were best for our country. But I'm too earnest to do that, too sincere, and in fact too knowledgeable. That's why I deal in specifics. Because I know them.
I thought it an acknowledgement that loss might come. But by Thursday afternoon, Mrs. Clinton was furiously stumping through Ohio using the same line of attack, but this time it wasn't a marker. The race is about "speeches versus solutions." Her unnamed opponent stands for the first, she for the second. He is all "words," she is "action." "Words are cheap," she said.
If they were so cheap, her inability to marshal them would not have cost her so dearly.
She has also taken to raising boxing gloves and waving them triumphantly from the podium. Is this a fruitful way to go? It's her way, bluster and combat. People do what they know how to do.
A better way might be honesty. I say this in the sense that an old Richard Nixon hand used it when he said, "Nixon doesn't always think honesty is the best policy, but he does think it's a policy." He saw it as a strategic gambit, to be used like any other.
But imagine if she tried honesty and humility. When everyone in America knows you're in a dreadful position, admit you're in a dreadful position. Don't lie about it and make them roll their eyes, tell the truth and make them blink.
* * *
As in: "Look, let's be frank. A lot of politics is spin, for reasons we can all write books about. I'm as guilty as anyone else. But right now I'm in the fight of my life, and right now I'm not winning. I'm up against an opponent who's classy and accomplished and who has captured the public imagination. I've had some trouble doing that. I'm not one of those people you think of when you hear a phrase like 'the romance of history.' But I think I bring some things to the table that I haven't quite managed to explain. I think I've got a case to be made that I haven't quite succeeded in making. And I'm going to ask you for one more try. Will you listen? And if I convince you, will you help me? Because I need your help."
Could Mrs. Clinton do something like this? I doubt it. She'd think it concedes too much and would look weak. But maybe it would show an emotional suppleness, and a characterological ability to see things as they are, which is always nice in a president.
And no one would say it was deranged. They might, in fact, feel sympathy. And Mrs. Clinton has always seemed to enjoy that.
" Would we even be talking about Hillary if her last name were not Clinton"? Is her success/ fame only a product of being married to Bill Clinton and his accomplishments (and moving to NY to become a prominent Senator - a little contrived I must admit but surely done before her).
I do wonder and I think a lot of other people are now starting to wonder about it too. -
SevenOneEighty wrote: I heard an interview question on CNN:
This is not an attack on you, 7180, but starting to wonder? I've been convinced of that for years. As I understand it, the only other senator from NYS who barely lived here before running was Bobby Kennedy - another member of a prominent political family. Does anyone seriously think an unknown female lawyer who'd never lived in NYS could become our US senator after moving here only a year before the election? Not a chance in hell.
" Would we even be talking about Hillary if her last name were not Clinton"? Is her success/ fame only a product of being married to Bill Clinton and his accomplishments (and moving to NY to become a prominent Senator - a little contrived I must admit but surely done before her).
I do wonder and I think a lot of other people are now starting to wonder about it too. -
actually, i think people would have been MORE likely to have heard of hillary rodham sooner had she NOT married bill.
before she agreed to move back to arkansas with him so that he could (unsuccessfully) run for congress, she was on track be more high powered in washington than he was. instead, she moved to the top of the heap in arkansas, but i bet should would have moved to the top of a bigger heap, too.
it's like that old joke, from when he was president, of the two of them stopping at a gas station and finding that the owner is an old flame of hers. bill says to her, "bet you're glad you chose me, since you're now first lady of the united states of america. if you'd married him, you'd be the wife of the owner of the texaco. "
hillary replies, "no, if i'd married him, i'd be first lady of the united states of america." -
i admit i didn't watch much of that (like text more than video, which is why i'm addicted to the internet and don't watch TV), but i do agree that obama is more electable in a general campaign.
what sucks is that i'm not convinced he'd be a better president than hillary.
don't get me wrong, i do love obama and have for many years. i first met him in 2001, and he knocked my socks off. i'm thrilled to see him doing so well, and i'd be beyond pleased to see him become president. -
Ah, the fan videos just keep on comin'...
(this one pointed at the powerful, Milwaukee Wisconsin-based Laverne and Shirley contingent)
In case anyone somehow missed the other one:
Now, if she'd only stop plagiarizing Obama's and Edwards' speeches (pot to kettle...pot to kettle...come in, kettle...)
Listen to all the issues she co-opts throughout the whole thing, not just the comic, blatant rip-off toward the beginning. Heh, even takes a scene from the recent Obama audience fainting video, responding as he did almost word for word. Plant? Hah, okay, that was unfair. But still funny.
Sorry if this comes across as negative toward her. I actually supported her earlier on until a few months ago as I steadily noticed reason after reason why I can no longer do so.
What's more, the whole "loyalty over competency" policy of hers and the resulting merely reactionary incompetency that results of it, as well as the whole-cloth, patent fallacy invented and dressed as "more experience" just to sell an increasingly hard sell seems to remind me of everything I detest about the current presidential administration. Some change.
Granted, that's just my opinion. -
Beginning of the end for Clinton?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/us/politics/19cnd-campaign.html?pagewanted=2&hp -
Make that 10 in a row.....Obama won Hawaii also..Doh!
-
Sen Clinton needs to win in Ohio and Texas by margins greater than she's been losing - double digit victories are mandatory for her to regain any semblance of credibility as a candidate who can win in November.
I don't believe that is going to happen.
I believe Sen Obama will be the Dem candidate.
I am phone-banking for him on calls to Ohio and Texas - I believe he will be our nest president. -
Livetotravel wrote: I am phone-banking for him on calls to Ohio and Texas - I believe he will be our nest president.
And then will he spread his wings and fly away?
The delegate counts between him and Hillary are not _that_ wide, so it is far from over. Having said that, I believe that he is going to beat her as well. Always beating the women, gots to keep them in their place...
-
Livetotravel wrote: Sen Clinton needs to win in Ohio and Texas by margins greater than she's been losing - double digit victories are mandatory for her to regain any semblance of credibility as a candidate who can win in November.
The mathematicians are saying that she needs to win a minimum of 65% of remaining delegates in all races from here forward just to break even with Obama, at this point.
I don't believe that is going to happen.
I believe Sen Obama will be the Dem candidate.
I am phone-banking for him on calls to Ohio and Texas - I believe he will be our nest president.
Good luck with that. -
wow, everyone is so bold picking obama
-
mr. met wrote: wow, everyone is so bold picking obama
Well, I don't think it is over yet. But were I betting, I would put my money on Obama over Hillary at this point.
But then I bought into the whole McCain is dead thing a ways back too, so what the hell do I know?
-
mr. met wrote: wow, everyone is so bold picking obama
Ahem... Here is my post from OVER 12 MONTHS AGO:
http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33094 -
Networks cutting away from Clinton's speech for Obama:
-
Carnivore wrote: [quote=mr. met]wow, everyone is so bold picking obama
Ahem... Here is my post from OVER 12 MONTHS AGO:
http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33094
i admit to being late to the Obama bandwagon, having preferred a Bloomberg run in opposition to the Democratic establishment
and if Obama had gotten shut out of the Dem nomination i'd urge for an Obama/Bloomberg indy run
but now that Barry has proven himself electable, i'm here -
hilary will win
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds











