A way for singles to meet?

ok, you said they stand more to gain in terms of speeding up the process of integration & putting down roots...I found that prospect a bit off putting.

findcate wrote: ok, you said they stand more to gain in terms of speeding up the process of integration & putting down roots...I found that prospect a bit off putting.

Ok, then this is probably not for you. I am talking about the globalized professional labor force who can pretty much pick and choose where in the world they want to live, and if they're single, do so on the basis of where the best career opportunities and lifestyles are. In terms of actual immigration status, they're more likely to be able to open doors and offer certain long-term benefits to the average American woman than vice versa. But meeting someone can make the difference between staying a couple of years and staying 10, and between having and not having much life outside work early on. Like I say, they're at a discount the first couple of years, because they've met few people and are learning a new system, and because a lot of women wouldn't consider dating a foreigner. The ones that would are the one's they're looking for.

findcate wrote:
Funny, actually i'm married to a foreign citizen, a brit, who sounds like what you're talking about in terms of picking & choosing where to live--and he has nothing to gain from our relationship except me. and obviously, who could want more than that?

Likewise (just neither of us are British or American). Though I think marriage has many purposes beyond romance, as the vows attest to. And I've found that having two quite different nationalities and cultures provides a broader canvas on which to fulfil those vows, than had I married one of my peers.

findcate wrote:
I guess the way it sounded to me at first was that you were suggesting that NY women are so desperate they should consider luring men with the prospect of a green card--some kind of reversal of mail order brides.

There is indeed a market in arranged green-card marriages, and there are women that desperate. Not what I was thinking of at all, didn't mean it to sound that way. But I wouldn't judge people who did that, and I've known a couple or two who met and then fell in love that way, a bit like the movie.

Just wishing to point out that for women who regard themselves as having reasonably high standards, and are frustrated by lean pickings among New York bachelors (due to the aforementioned ratio) there is this substantial, growing pool of top tier guys on special non-immigrant visas in NY who just got here and who want to meet people, where all the good ones are decidedly not taken, and where other people's xenophobia can work to your advantage.

Anonymous wrote: OK doctorj, you've sold me on this idea. So where ARE these bachelors then?

Please don't say the internet. No can do. No way.

May I suggest b-school? Something like 47% of my classmates were born outside of the US, the ratio of men to women is 65-35, they are highly educated, and their projected career earnings are quite healthy (let's keep it vague). OK, so the banker/hedge fund mgr crows may be oil & water with board, but hey, if you want me to sneak you into the next happy hour, let me know.

escap--what's b-school?

also, drj, i agree marriage is made of more than romance. sounds like you found someone who expanded your perspective...

I think chemistry is definitely the first thing. after that I wish more women would just say what they want, if they do want to find someone who can be a partner (just thinking of some of my friends who have gone with the flow a bit too long and wound up attached to someone who had no desire for a commitment). if a woman wants someone who will eventually want to settle down, we should be able to say that without the guy running for the door. It's just good to find out as soon as possible if the guy envisions himself in a relationship or if he envisions travelling around the world alone. It's harder to step back after you get involved.

yikes, that's drastic.

findcate wrote: after that I wish more women would just say what they want, if they do want to find someone who can be a partner (just thinking of some of my friends who have gone with the flow a bit too long and wound up attached to someone who had no desire for a commitment). if a woman wants someone who will eventually want to settle down, we should be able to say that without the guy running for the door. It's just good to find out as soon as possible if the guy envisions himself in a relationship or if he envisions travelling around the world alone. It's harder to step back after you get involved.

That's one strategy, and in an ideal world you could say that without the guy running for the door. On the other hand, guys who don't imagine they're in a particular hurry to settle down or who have been spoilt for choice don't necessarily know or want to think about what they want and where they're going, and too much pressure early on can be a real party stopper. It is difficult for a woman to avoid overestimating the emotional intelligence and maturity of the male of the species, and thus there's a lot to be said for stealth. The most commitment-phobic guy could be tricked into a 60-year series of consecutive one-night stands with one woman, involving adventures like marriage, homebuying, children, and retirement, as long as he'd sort-of assumed he could back out any time and wasn't made to think about it too hard.

also, I guess I've been reading this thread because I have friends who are single and i agree that it's rough dating in nyc, and i remember being in that situation--and feeling so completely disappointed in the guys I met who didn't want to think too hard about things. I just felt like they didn't have any depth, and were just so much less than I wanted. Life isn't just a party (although I have more fun with my husband than anyone else). I wouldn't want a partner who i had to trick into being with me.

findcate wrote: but the thought of it shouldn't totally freak him out, else he's probably never going to want that.

Then I should mention that I'm a counter-example, as I was always pretty freaked out by the idea and believed I would never marry, until I changed my mind. And I think one's culture and what kind of family you grew up in colors your default beliefs greatly. I do understand that many women want straight talking about the relationship and exactly which category it falls into and where it's going, but most men's brains aren't wired that way, and the instinctive responses when pressed about the ineffable are to flee or dissemble. Maybe another guy can back me up here, but I'd say bringing up marriage early on is a turnoff for many men, and a yes or no about it in the hypothetical is a poor predictor of long-term outcome. Because no matter what a guy might or might not have thought or said about marriage in general, in the specific circumstances if it feels like it's time with the right person and if he feels like he has a choice, he'll make a very definite choice and stick to it.

doctorj wrote: [quote=findcate] but the thought of it shouldn't totally freak him out, else he's probably never going to want that.

Then I should mention that I'm a counter-example, as I was always pretty freaked out by the idea and believed I would never marry, until I changed my mind. And I think one's culture and what kind of family you grew up in colors your default beliefs greatly. I do understand that many women want straight talking about the relationship and exactly which category it falls into and where it's going, but most men's brains aren't wired that way, and the instinctive responses when pressed about the ineffable are to flee or dissemble. Maybe another guy can back me up here, but I'd say bringing up marriage early on is a turnoff for many men, and a yes or no about it in the hypothetical is a poor predictor of long-term outcome. Because no matter what a guy might or might not have thought or said about marriage in general, in the specific circumstances if it feels like it's time with the right person and if he feels like he has a choice, he'll make a very definite choice and stick to it.

I have to back you up on this. For too many women, the focus is on marriage but not on the person they want to marry. Did we all forget that the reason you get married is because you met someone that you simply can't live without. Don't try and tell me that you pick up on that on a second date. The desperation vibe is a deal breaker. Here's an idea. Instead of husband hunting, try having a good time and maybe someone will want to join you in that good time. Slow down and live in the present rather than a hyperfocus on the future. Love should'nt have to be so preconceived.

cythren wrote:

AND one more thing - women can date younger men, just as men famously date younger women. An age difference isn't always such a big deal, although cultural platitudes might imply that it is when the *woman* is the older party.

i think that's a great thing, i do. i've tried it, perhaps other women who've tried it can speak up. and i'd do it again, too. but i can tell you that in my experience the majority of men want to have a family. and younger men, especialy, haven't come to the possibility that this might not happen.

at 41, there's no shortage of much older men i could be dating. but younger? not so much.